Has DavidArchie Changed?

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t remember David tweeting such random activities before. His tweets used to be these “inspirational” sorts of things. I think I’m liking this “willing to share” DavidArchie! 🙂

In other news, according to SD’s latest poll, the majority of fans care more about David doing performances and appearances than they care about his finding a music label.  Maybe because it’s now possible to see and hear David without having to be signed in today’s technologically advanced setting?  Even though a label could get him the bigger audience he deserves.

We shall see.

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Posted on April 13, 2014, in David's twitter. Bookmark the permalink. 97 Comments.

  1. I’m liking the random tweets too. He also does some self-promotion on twitter which he rarely did in the past. Especially if he doesn’t sign with a label he will have to market himself. If he does take some college courses he should consider taking a marketing course.

  2. Yes, it does seem like he is changed and I hope it continues fun tweets.
    We’ll see what happens, but I too believe that a label could get the bigger audience he so deserves.

  3. I Totally Agree -cq. I would also add that David needs a very strong team behind him. I really do like Gina and Kari and they are very supportive of David and his career and think they should be part of his team. Kari is really a road manager and Gina does do PR work too. I think that David trusts Gina and likes that she is very low profile but I do wonder if he needs someone more aggressive like a Scooter Braun type as his music manager. But his choice not mine. I just hope he keeps his options open re:labels and managers.

  4. As ODD fans I think some of us may have an unrealistic view of David’s options at this point. I’m not sure David has the option of signing with a major label now. He has to go with the opportunities that present themselves and build his music career back up. He’s been off the scene for two years. Unfortunately the old saying “out of sight, out of mind” probably applies. The good news for David is there are more ways to get your music out there than there were in the past. You no longer have to have a label to record and tour. Sometimes a major label can be a hindrance. Jordin Sparks is still signed with a major label. She recorded an album years ago and RCA still hasn’t released it. I think we will get more music from David if he stays Indie, and right now that may be his only option. Of course if he gains popularity a major label may come knocking on his door.

  5. I would agree that he might not have the options for a major label right now but he does for who he has as his music manager. Maybe Gina is very assertive. idk. At least she has some connections. Also major Indie labels have changed. Many do have connections to the major labels as most are distributed through a major label now.http://musicians.about.com/od/musicindustrybasics/g/IndieLabel.htm

  6. So if David does go with an Indie label I would hope that is a larger one that is connected to major label for distribution. I have no idea what David’s options are.

  7. I’m not surprised about the outcome of the poll, all the fans that are active on the sites (most anyway, not me, dang, hoping someday) have seen him live and are hungry to see him on stage where he shines and to some extent maybe don’t want fame for David, but want him to say small that would be better for them, jmo.

  8. That is a good point cq.

  9. I am sure someone posted this before or I did when we were discussing possible music managers for David. Mac Reynolds- who is the manager of Imagine Dragons- seems like a really good manager. Not that Gina is not also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KKaUF1XWA0

  10. Based on the videos and the tweets, he seems wiser and more mature. As much as I want to know more about what he’s doing, planning and thinking, I’m glad he’s not divulging too much info via social media. With that said, I wonder if he’s been in contact with some of the other AI7 idols? Jordin Sparks?

    • I wondered if David has been in contact with other idols too. David seemed to be close to Jason Castro at one point. It does not seem like Cook has remained close to any of them but I am not sure as I do not follow him. I did wonder about Jordin and Allison contacting David . Interesting that Syesha is in the Broadway musical The Book of Mormon. Wonder if David will visit her.

      • I think it would be really cool if D did visit Syesha while she’s on Broadway. I’m sure by now he knows.

      • lol, desertrat, that would be interesting. Wonder if he would identify or be weirded out be it.

      • David is so well traveled and used to meeting peeps from all walks of life, I’m guessing he would welcome an opportunity to speak w/Syesha re. her Broadway role. The women of AI7 were fairly close for a while; I’m willing to bet Syesha passed a few words with Brooke W. about the role.

      • David always had a good relationship with Syesha. I hope he does go to see her in the musical. I would think that he has been in contact with Brooke.

  11. I agree w/Grammyj that D probably doesn’t actually have all the options we ODD fans know he’s deserving of. Still, I’m sure there are quite a few managers besides Gina and Kari who would love to work with him.

    Re. Imagine Dragons, I just read that their name is an anagram of “something that they all feel passionate about”. Wonder what it is and if it has to do with their faith.

  12. Just got back from a long & much needed vacation. I’ve been trying to catch up and what better place than here on SD?

    Pretty quiet today but it’s Sunday. No random tweets from David on Sundays. That much about David has not changed. I was alway surprised he agreed to work on Sunday when he was touring but I guess he had no control if he was under contract. He may have done the concerts but I can’t recall him ever tweeting on Sunday. Anorther thing which has not changed is his relationship with his sisters. It’s common knowledge he is very close to his sisters (& mom) and has close female friends he has mentioned in the past but I wonder sometimes if David has guy friends he hangs out with?

    Good to see he is working on a song and hope to hear even a snippet soon of whatever he’s working on which may give us a clue as to what direction he may be headed in or where his head is regarding music. It may be a while before we know what David is thinking or willing to do. It appears to me that he is giving the fans little bits & pieces of himself via twitter because it’s what the fans expect. David is smart & knows it’s important to keep his fans interest even if there’s nothing going on yet.

    Kari is busy & will be for the rest of this year if she’s working with JT for his entire tour. Lucky girl but I’m sure it’s alot of work. And of course, David can travel & do appearances without Kari as his tour manager but I can’t see David doing that since they have such a good rapport. On the other hand, I can’t see David doing no appearances at all this year. It would be a big mistake. He really should get back on stage ASAP after he’s fully decompressed from his mission, the sooner the better. IMO.

  13. Welcome back Senseless, glad to hear from you.

  14. Yes-It is good to see your comments-Senseless.

  15. CQ, I couldn’t let this go without some response. You say “I’m not surprised about the outcome of the poll, all the fans that are active on the sites (most anyway, not me, dang, hoping someday) have seen him live and are hungry to see him on stage where he shines and to some extent maybe don’t want fame for David, but want him to say small that would be better for them, jmo.”

    You seem to be implying that fans that have seen David perform live may have an interest in his not becoming too famous because if he does become more in demand it would cause him to book larger, less intimate, venues to accommodate his new found popularity.

    As someone who has seen David perform a number of times, in both small and large venues, I can assure you that I wish nothing but the greatest success for David, and cannot imagine any fan of David’s feeling otherwise. It would not be better for any admirer of David’s talent for David to have a marginal career.

    • Nice that you feel that way, bliss.

    • I agree, Bliss and I have seen him in small settings and coming alive and killing it in huge settings. I want all of that for David and the more people who get to hear that amazing voice in person the better the world will be!

  16. I understand what cq was saying. I would like David to have world-wide & great success but as one who has also seen David perform multiple times in rather small venues during his own tours as well as large arenas when he opened for Demi, I much preferred the smaller venues. The intimacy, the way David makes eye contact, seemingly recognizes & smiles at some of his fans in the smaller audiences….that special connection & intimacy is lost in the big arenas. So yes, if David were to become a huge star like a JT, small venues would be a thing of the past.

    The thing is I don’t think we have to worry about David becoming a huge star or the size venues he would perform in but more about when or if we will see David perform live this year. However, he may have to put out some new original material first although I would be more than happy to see David perform the songs he recorded & released after his mission announcement. 🙂

    • That can happen in arena tours, also. When he opened for Demi, he was in an arena, and my concert buddies had left me to get closer to the stage. I stepped across the aisle to some empty rows, waiting for them, and he smiled and waved at me. (I did the ole look behind me to make sure it was me he was waving to. Haha.)

  17. Hum big verses small venues. I think that most artist do prefer small intimate venues to connect with there audience, that is why some real big stars still do small arenas. I believe that even if David reached super fame, he would still want and would do small venues. I guess I was mostly talking more about the price to go to VIP’s and also for concerts. The more famous, the higher it costs to go see him.

  18. CQ, to clarify, I greatly prefer to see David in a small setting. Who wouldn’t? I saw him at PC Richard in Manhattan in 2009 with about only 200 other people and David was right in front of me. A month later I was at the back of the cavernous Prudential Center in Newark, NJ, and I felt that David and I were in different zip codes. Having said that, I would gladly give up the intimacy of a small venue if it meant that David was achieving a level of success that warranted booking him into larger venues. In other words, I wish for David what he wishes for himself and is able to achieve. I’ll work around the level of popularity, in terms of venues, as it unfolds.

  19. Whether the setting is cozy or the Grand Canyon, David turns wherever he is into his living room,and everyone in the audience, whether its 200 or 4,000, feels like David called them on the phone to personally invite them to the show. He is confidence and showmanship personified, and when he belts out a heart felt song, he will reintroduce you to your soul.

    It’s been over 2 long years, and I cannot wait to see and hear this older version of David Archuleta, live and in concert. He will be even more dynamic than the younger version, which, as we remember, was none too shabby in its own right.

  20. Bottom line, David needs to get his name and his talent out there. There are way too many people who have filed him away under “That kid from American Idol 6 years ago”. David just needs to put out current music that resonates with the music buying public, and bring his persona to 2014. I believe that he will do just because he wants a career in music, and he is a realist. The fact that it hasn’t happened in the 3 weeks that he’s been back is, imo, no cause for concern, yet.

    If nothing has happened by, let’s say, June, I may start getting a little itchy, and will take another look at that “patience” video, lol.

  21. I agree with you- bliss.

  22. The “Breakfast with David Archuleta” video has more than 420,000 views.

    David’s “I’m back” video has 42,000 views.

    • Great reason why it’s a good idea to pick Shay’s brain a bit about marketing yourself online. It’s interesting to point out that Shay only has about 522K followers on Twitter (compared to David’s 1.38M) but Shay has 2M subscribers to his Youtube channel compared to the 116K that David has on his channel. David definitely needs to find ways to parlay some of those Twitter and Facebook followers to YT subscribers if he wants more people to watch his videos.

      • Actually, taking those numbers further, David is actually getting a higher return based on subscribers numbers than Shay is on those two videos. For his last video at 42,000 views that equals approx 36% of subscribers watching. For Shay at 420,000 views that equals approx 21% of subscribers watching. While David does very much need higher overall numbers, you also want to look at % of active engagement. It would be great if he could increase both.

        I’m kind of a numbers geek 😉

      • Ali glad you are a numbers gal.
        David would have to do something different then he has done in the past to increase his numbers.
        maybe start with quality current covers like The Piano Guys or say Pentatonix to start?
        they are doing very well on YT too.
        Shay has a very strong outgoing personality.. don’t see David that way but hey you never know maybe David will go Three Stooges guy humor considering he has been hanging with other young guys the last two years.

      • I don’t think David has to go the direction of Shay’s videos to increase his subscribers. I mean, Shay is already doing that and it seems to come naturally to him whereas that’s not really David’s personality. Like you mentioned, though, current covers would be a great way to engage more people. It would need to have good production value though. The people who do this and get big views aren’t sitting in front of their webcam, recording their cover on a built-in camera mic.

        If he’s singing, it really doesn’t matter what his personality is. I have no idea about the personalities of the members of Pentatonix but I watch their videos. I also don’t know about the guys in Boyce Avenue but I’ve watched several of their videos. Because the music is good.

  23. I guess no separation of religion from his professional life: Today’s tweet from David, Sunday no less.

    David Archuleta ‏@DavidArchie · 51m
    “During the week from Palm Sunday to Easter morning we turn our thoughts to Jesus Christ.” Each day lets see what we can do to do this 🙂

    • I’m not a religious person at all, but perhaps it’s better this way. WYSIWYG.

      • I am not a religious person so I really do not appreciate the religious tweets but I guess David feels a need to do it. Does it mean- What You See Is What You Get? lol. Not sure. Just guessing. I really did enjoy 60 minutes piece on the Pope last night-very well done. I like the new Pope. To me it is interesting that David challenges and questions the rules and policies of the music industry and a music label but never does question the rules and policies of his church. It is just interesting to me. Yes a tweet from David regarding Passover would be appropriate.

      • Yes: What You See Is What You Get.

      • Meaning that at least his (possibly extreme) religiousness will not come as a surprise to anyone if he tweets about it openly…

    • It’s not like there’s some religious rule against tweeting on Sunday lol.

      • No not at all, it’s that he never tweeted on Sunday before, but I guess it does make sense to tweet because of the subject matter.
        I’m guessing we’ll get religious tweet all week.
        I think that David is still and will always proselytize. If that’s what he feels he needs to do, that’s his right.

  24. CQ, I don’t think David is proselytizing when he tweets a religious based message. David has always been a deeply religious person, and still is. References to Jesus Christ at Easter time seems appropriate to me, bit then again, I’m going to a Seder tomorrow night for Passover, so I’m hardly the one to speak on the issue., lol.

    • If David chooses to tweet about Easter and Jesus, just my opinion, given this season, it would be nice if he also acknowledged Passover.

      • Wysiwyg=”What you see is what you get”

        With a diverse group of fans, I agree that it would be nice if he would acknowledge Passover, and other religious traditions as well, since he’s going that route now. During his CFTH VIP, I thought, wouldn’t it be great if one of the questions was a request for a Hanukkah song. I’m so used to a token Hanukkah song or two in all of the holiday concerts I attend, but he’s not one to do that.

        Since his mission announcement, the conventional wisdom among fans has been that he had refrained from religious talk out of respect to fans’ differing beliefs, but I guess it was actually because he was afraid to do so, as he now says.

      • Lol, Marie answered the question.

    • Those figures might not be correct, but I’m just glad that they have a good picture of him instead one that he looks like he is 12, lol.

  25. I am not so sure David has that much money. Those lists don’t tend to be accurate and he must have taken a big financial hit while he was away for 2 years. He never had a big endorsement deal or made a ton of money on tour and appearances. It looks like he supports the family so they must have gone through some of that money-Just a guess.

  26. Yes, thank you Marie for deciphering, lol. Maybe today he will acknowledge Passover? if he does, I will stand corrected and say that Sunday message was not proselytizing, but just spiritual.

  27. Ali true all that.. quality is important.

  28. WOW, was I wrong. He did tweet on Sunday! Surpised? Yes. Shocked? Not so much when I considered he said he’s not afraid to show who he is & what he believes. This is David and always has been. I didn’t take it as “proselytizing” in the same way he did on his mission but perhaps in a subliminal way since other Christian denominations also recognize Palm Sunday, Holy Week and Easter as well. The difference being LDS I think have a different view about Good Friday and Christ’s crucifixion. There are some major differences in what LDS believe and other Christian denominations believe regarding Christ as well.

    I would be interested to how many Christian celebrities tweeted such a message to their followers? How many LDS celebrities tweeted such a message? I don’t have twitter so I don’t know. Maybe there are many Christian celebrites who do this?

    The “!0 Richest AI Runner-ups” article was interesting. If David’s “net worth” is that much, it may be due to what he earned in the Philippines before he left. He had to have earned a good amount otherwise how could he have kept Kari on his payroll? Surely she wasn’t working for him gratis? Or maybe she was? But, and this is important, if you go to some other “celebrity net worth” sites, David doesn’t even come up. David showing up on this list of “Rich American Idol Runner-ups” just makes AI look like a great way to go for those aspiring singers wishing to make it big since it makes it appear that you don’t even have to win to make a few million. With the exception of Daughtry & Hudson, the others are probably over-estimated. But who REALLY knows?

    Back to work. 🙂

    • I am sure he earned a nice chunk of $ right before he left including the Bench contract and TV series and he spent a lot making his music that he left for the fans but I have no doubt that he has money left.

    • David has always made the Forbes list of AI alumni who made the most money year after year. Most years it has had him at somewhere between $1 and $2 million. With all he did the last year before he left for Chile, and in the hands of a good investment firm, there’s no reason he couldn’t be worth $5 mil.

  29. For the record, I don’t give a knish that David did not tweet about Passover. It’s not his religion. As a Jew, however, I am impressed at his “net worth”, alleged or otherwise, lol.

  30. CQ, you say, “Maybe today he will acknowledge Passover? if he does, I will stand corrected and say that Sunday message was not proselytizing, but just spiritual.

    Are you saying that trying to convert a Jew to Mormonism does not constitute proselytizing? In gambling terms, it would constitute a long shot, at best. When I told those Missionaries I met in NY that I was Jewish, their eyes kind of glazed over, as if to say fuhgetaboutit, this guy’s hopeless, lol.

  31. InnerCircleQueen

    This is the new David we’ve all been waiting for!!! I love his Sunday tweet about holy week! Expect more of this.

  32. Senseless, 11:39: “Maybe there are many Christian celebrites who do this?”

    I was thinking the same thing. I follow Jennifer Hudson, Fantasia, Melinda Doo and Jordin Sparks and they’ve always unapologetically made religious remarks (eg, God is good, his eye is on the sparrow, etc.) when they felt the need. Also, it’s expected that they may appear on a black-themed award show (ie, Soul Train Music Awards, BET Honors, etc.) and sing a gospel song. Then there’s Pharrell and his gospel sounding, church hand-clapping, “Happy” song. Perhaps I don’t see David as proselytizing because his actions are the norm in my circle.

    For the record, I prefer not to receive religious tweets from celebrities but I guess it’s on me to ignore them.

    • Very good point desertrat and I was thinking the same (of course, after I posted my comment, lol, quick trigger), David is no different. I guess maybe being a little sensitive because of him just coming from his mission. HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO POST WHATEVER AND WHENEVER HE WANTS!!!!
      Now as far as acknowledging Passover, hum maybe it’s wrong for me to feel that he should acknowledge. Ok all I’m saying is regardless as to what David posts (I can skip what I don’t want to read, lol), I’m STILL waiting for music from David that matches that genius voice. Now if he decides to only be in a religious box ( and I’m almost 100% that’s NOT the case), that ia his choice and he will still have that wonderful genius voice, just a smaller group will enjoy it.

    • I too prefer not to have religious tweets sent by music artists I follow. I just do not follow any Christian music artists. That being said of course David has a right to tweet what he wants. I don’t have twitter so it is easy for me to ignore it ( I just check it on the internet) but what about those younger fans that follow David. How do they feel about it? I think that is important for his music career. Once again I think David’s focus should be on music.

  33. i see all the experts are here today,

    • Rooster dear sir, I believe that would include yourself. :Speking for myself, I hope some new performance is soon to come (other than religious). It would be so very welcome.

  34. Hello everyone! I’ve been offline for most of the day and catching up and reading through all the comments. As for David’s Sunday/Holy Week tweet? Eh. Whatever. He’s a religious guy, always has been.

    He can tweet all about Jesus Christ all he wants, I won’t be bothered. It’s when he starts tweeting about JOSEPH SMITH…well…then…I just may have to push the “Unfollow” button (or send him a reminder that his mission is over!). 😛

  35. That’s untrue, ALC. Mormons embrace the teachings in the Bible. What we believe is not anti-Biblical.

    I know this because I’ve been a member for 42 years. Have you had any direct personal experience with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? As in, have you ever attended church, read the Book of Mormon, or taken the discussions David taught? I would say not or you wouldn’t say such a thing.

    Just because someone tells you what we believe or you read something in an article or book, it doesn’t make it true. People misunderstanding or twisting our beliefs to fit their biases is common fare. There is a lot of baloney about the LDS that is presented as fact…and isn’t.

    Please look before you leap to condemn.

    • Ok then, what do you believe about God? Was he a man who progressed into becoming a God? Did he then have His own Heavenly Father? Is it possible for men in the Mormon church to also progress into becoming a God?

      • Shanny in Australia

        What do YOU believe about God ALC? And what specifically do you base those beliefs on? And what makes you so certain those interpretations are right? There is a reason why there are so many churches in the world. And there is a reason why many people say they don’t believe everything their church teaches. I’m sure we could make an argument about how something you believe is unbiblical. On the other hand I’m sure we can find many things in common, like how Jesus Christ died for each of us personally.

    • BTW, actually, David has given me a missionary lesson. We have discussed this. Also, I’ve discussed this with other LDS people. Looking forward to your answer 🙂

      • Shanny in Australia

        Oh we must have been posting at the same time. Lol

        You mean to say you’ve sat down with David personally and had a good in depth discussion about religion? Did you discuss with him what you believe? What did he say in return?
        I would so love to hear all the deets! 🙂

      • I can’t wait to tell you!! But, I asked a question. Please don’t dodge it. Please explain. It would be good for everyone to know. Wouldn’t it?

      • Shanny in Australia

        Actually what I want to know most of all is how in the world you got to have a long conversation with David? And….can you get me in with him too please? Lol

      • Hi Shanny, this is in response to your second post to me. It’s a very personal thing to me. I’m sorry I even admitted it. He is very gracious and open with his fans. I’m very thankful for that.

      • Shanny in Australia

        Oh now we’re really posting at the same time. Lol
        You can’t wait to tell me what? About your discussion with David or what you believe?
        Well I am truly interested in both of those answers myself!

        Hmmm….well I’m perfectly happy to discuss my beliefs but not under a spirit of attacking. How about you start with explaining what you believe with references and we’ll take it from there and see how things go? 🙂

        But please do share how you managed to have a missionary discussion with David. That’s completely cool!

      • Shanny in Australia

        And my second reply lol….well I can only hope that I get such a chance with David some day!
        I presume then that it was not a terribly in depth conversation? I think it’s only fair to the conversation, that you at least share how much time you got to spend with David discussing religion, otherwise that could be misrepresenting him.

  36. Shanny in Australia

    Well I’ve gotta go to bed. Late here. I’ll check back tomorrow.
    Take care. 🙂

  37. Oh dear Shanny, I hope you don’t think I’m attacking you or anyone else personally! I simply stated a fact. The topic at hand is does the Mormon doctrine of God, Jesus and the gospel coincide with the Bible or contradict it. It’s not really open to anyone’s interpretation. There are facts that are plain and clear.

    As for misrepresenting David, Bookaholic asked me a question, I answered it. I have no obligation to tell anyone how the discussion I had with him went down. I’m also not the only fan he’s discussed his beliefs with. He was a missionary before he was a missionary.

    Wednesdays are extremely busy for me. I have to go, but would love to discuss further. A discussion is 2 ways though. I asked a question that has repeatedly been dodged.

    • Shanny in Australia

      ALC if you feel uncomfortable repeating a conversation you had with David out of respect for him, that is fine, I don’t want you to disrespect David. After you said you were uncomfortable about it, I accepted that and merely asked that you simply reveal how much time you spent discussing it with David. I think that was fair enough because It would give an approximate idea of how in depth you went. Nevertheless, we can move on from that point altogether if you don’t want to even share how long you spent speaking with him. I will assume then that it was no more than 10 mins or some such thing.

      As for us discussing things – yes if you truly want to discuss doctrine, I will reciprocate and talk about things with you. But I will only discuss it if it is about information sharing and we are discussing it in a friendly respectful way. I will not respond to attacks and I will not be forced onto the back foot. These are things I hold very dear and I won’t be putting them out there to be taken advantage of.

      For instance, i can easily see how an atheist would think I’m absurd and foolish, if I told him that I believe a man called Jesus Christ once walked this earth and one day a bunch of his contemporaries whipped and beat him, pushed thorns into his head, hung him on a cross by hammering huge nails through his hands, stuck a spear in his side so that liquid gushed out, and then when he was pronounced dead, laid him in a tomb. And yet after three days, he was miraculously recovered and walking around talking to people all fine and dandy. Anything can be made to sound absurd if couched in certain terms. With that in mind, I WILL answer your questions but I will do it in a way that I think is fair and decent and shows what we believe in, in the broader context of things.

      Now having said that, I too am a busy person, it is Easter weekend here and to get into this properly with scriptural citations will take a considerable amount of time and effort on both our parts. If you really genuinely want to do a two way sharing of beliefs, I will participate openly and honestly. However, do you really want to do this or just let sleeping dogs lie as the saying goes? In all honesty, I think it’s probably going to be a wasted exercise and not worth the time and effort.

      If you do want to continue, then please begin by sharing something of what you believe and why. On the other hand, if you want to shake hands and part as friends, then here is my hand. *shakes hand*

      • Aww, thanks Shanny, that’s really nice, the way you put it. Um, I already wrote quite a bit before I got your message, lol, and I’m waiting to push the post comment button. It will seem absurd now, since I wished you sweet dreams, haha. You’re clearly awake. I’m going to leave it in though.

        I hesitate to post anything now. Bookaholic however, made some accusations. I understand why he/she did. I did want to address them however. You don’t have to answer my earlier questions. We don’t have to go back and forth. I just wanted to make my point the way I see it and with the evidences I’ve found. I hope not to offend you. But, hey, would love your feed back if you so choose. It was by letter btw, not face to face, so there you have it. Didn’t want to even bring that up. I could kick myself for mentioning it in the first place. So, now will your next question be how many pages? lol!
        One thing I did mention to certain “people” I’ve discussed this with is, there are some things we have in common.

  38. I have a little bit of time now. Shanny, I know you’re sleeping, haha. Our conversation a little earlier was a bit hard to follow, ha. I was trying to talk and carry out responsibilities at the same time. Hope you’re having sweet dreams.
    You asked me to share what I believe and I’m thrilled to do that. I will do it in the context of the topic which Bookaholic called me out on.

    Bookaholic, first, the word you mentioned “condemn”. Because things can be misconstrued when commenting, I want to let you know, my initial comment in no way condemns any person. If you mean condemning certain doctrines, then yes, I concede to that.

    Thanks for sharing how long you’ve been a member of your church. Interestingly enough, I’ve been an avid student of the Bible for about that long as well. How about you? Do you read and study your Bible every day?

    There’s a lot of info., but I’ll make it as quick and simple as possible without touching on everything. You’ve accused me of not using LDS sources to do my study of doctrines. I will quote from LDS sources. I’m wondering if you’ve read your own church history and some of the things your own prophets have said.

    I’m going to say a couple things about God and then one thing about the Gospel. The only reason I’m even discussing this is because I feel it’s of utmost importance to cut through deception. You can believe what you want, but to claim it’s Biblical, well, now you’re speaking about something I know and love. Here goes:

    In your own literature, History of the Church, vol. 6, chapter 14, pp. 305-6, your founding prophet, seer, and revelator, Joseph Smith teaches this:

    “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. …I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,… It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, …and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; …you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,… from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power”

    Not only does the Bible refute that, the Book of Mormon also refutes it: I’m wondering why God revealed one thing about Himself to JS and then the opposite thing about Himself to JS later.

    In your Articles of Faith, chapter 24, p. 430-431 Apostle James E. Talmage teaches this:

    “We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: ‘As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'”

    Here’s what I believe and what the Bible says about God:

    “I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior.” Isa. 43:10-11

    “I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God….is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any.” Isa. 44:6 & 8

    “To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?…for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.” Isa. 46:5 & 9

    “I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another.” Isa. 42:8

    “Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?” Hab. 1:12

    “For I am the Lord, I change not.” Mal. 3:6

    “…from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.” Psa. 90:2

    “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent.” Num. 23:19

    “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,…who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.” Rom. 1:22-25

    One more quick point about the gospel and then I’m done. Quoting from the Book of Mormon:

    2 Nephi 25:23 …for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do..

    Ephesians 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

    The Bible speaks against works as a means for salvation. The gospel of the Bible is simple, not complicated. It’s about Jesus alone. He did it all. He paid it all. There’s nothing we can add. We are warned not to add to this gospel. The Book of Mormon and your Gospel Principals speak of the importance of works in order to be saved and to progress to exaltation, as it were.

    OK, done.

    Hope you got enough sleep, Shanny. Here’s that handshake. Hoping we can still call it friends. Nice to meet ya.

    • Forgot to mention. The Ephesians 2:8-9 quote is from the Bible.

      • Shanny in Australia

        Thanks ALC. I haven’t forgotten ya, just super busy at the moment but in the words of Arnie… ‘I’ll be buck’. Lol. I hope you have a lovely Easter in the meantime. 🙂

  39. Shanny in Australia

    Ok, got a few minutes…as long as the baby stays asleep lol.

    To be honest, I’m struggling with how much to run with this and how much to just let it lie. I don’t think either of us are interested in an argument and both of us have other things to do – like get back to spazzing over David lol. I feel like to reply is to massage this thing beyond what may be useful to either of us …but at the same time it’s hard to let it lie without some sort of explanation. Lol

    Ok, here’s some things, keeping in mind, I’m trying to keep it simple and brief and therefore leaving out all sorts of other stuff that could also feed into the discussion…

    First off, I am aware of all that you have quoted. I am also aware that your views are the general views of Protestant Christians in general and they are of no surprise to me. One thing I learnt long ago is that other denominations know a lot of stuff about the gospel of Jesus Christ and I should not under estimate that. Like wise I think it is pretty common for non-LDS people to think that we don’t know much about the Bible etc and I think they too need to stop assuming that. I don’t know everything there is to know about my religion or your religion or the gospel in general but I can assure you, I do read the Bible and I do think about what it teaches.

    Ok getting doctrinal – and wow this is a first in the history of my experience as a DA fan despite all the chatter that goes on about my religion lol…

    First off, I agree with all those scriptures you quoted but I view them in a broader context. For instance, take these scriptures from the Bible:

    And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.(Matthew 3:16-17)

    So there was another voice speaking that was not Jesus Christ and the voice referred to Jesus as ‘my Son’.

    And…

    Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. (Luke 23:34)

    When Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. (Luke 23:46)

    In both these instances Jesus Christ is speaking to God (the Father).

    And…
    I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30)

    He’s speaking of two separate ‘wills’ here. His and the Father’s.

    Anyway, I could go on and on referencing such things as I’m sure you could go on referencing the scriptures you did.

    These scriptures seem to be at opposition with the scriptures you quoted and yet they are all from the Bible and I believe them all, yours and mine. So how do I reconcile that? Well….

    I believe that when Jesus Christ refers to the Father, he is referring to his LITERAL father who is God. Not to another part of himself. Per the scriptures I have quoted.

    Again, this same idea but from another perspective: I know Jesus Christ often said things which makes it sound like He and God are one person like in this instance….

    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works (John 14:10)

    According to this scripture it appears that God the Father dwells in Jesus Christ and they are not seperate like I suggested.

    But then just a few verses later He makes it sound like we the listener, are also one being with Him, when he said….

    At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. (John 14:20)

    And yet we know we are not one person with God the Father/God the Son.

    Therefore, I believe that God the Father and God the Son (Jesus Christ) are two seperate beings but they are one in PURPOSE. Jesus Christ submits His will perfectly to that of the Father. He says only what God would want Him to say, behaves as God would want Him to behave and therefore, if we have seen in Jesus Christ’s example a perfect representative of God, then it is as if we have seen God the Father himself.

    Likewise, if we follow the example of Jesus Christ and submit ourselves unto the will of God, we too in the eternities can become ‘one in Him’. One in purpose, of one heart and one mind.

    We worship them equally because they are of one heart, one mind, one purpose, and therefore one Glory.

    I love my Saviour Jesus Christ with my whole soul. How beautiful that it is Easter Friday here as I write this. The very day that I can doubly commemorate all that He did and suffered for me. I will worship Him for all eternity as my Saviour and My God. I also love His Father, whom he pointed to in all that He did and said and was. His Father is also my God. He sent his precious precious Son to sacrifice for me, because He loves me. He watches over me, cares for me, like a Father. I love Him with my whole soul and will worship Him for eternity.

    As for the grace-only thing. I have many words I could share about that too but I think I’ve used a lot already lol. Suffice it to say, that Book of Mormon scripture you quoted doesn’t negate what we believe. You and I will have differences on that – based on the Bible – but I think a lot of it is semantics more than anything. My favourite Scripture is “I glory in plainness, I glory in truth, I glory in my Jesus for He hath redeemed my soul from hell”. (2 Nephi 33:6). I too love the simplicity of the gospel. 🙂

    Hope what I’ve said at least makes sense. We have differences. That is fine. I can see why you believe what you do and think you are legitimate in that. I hope you can feel the same way towards me. Enjoy your Easter my friend. 🙂

  40. Hey Shanny, You have given an argument on the triune God. That’s a subject that is complicated and takes a lot of time to discuss. I’m not really talking about Jesus and God being one at this point. My argument is more basic. Joseph Smith said that God was like us before He was God. He came from an earthly father and mother like us. He also had his own heavenly Father. He had to progress to become the Almighty, All Powerful God who created ALL things. Mormon men can also do as your god has done. This is heresy. It’s not Biblical. It comes from the imaginations of men. That’s my point. There is only one God, as He says of Himself. He knows of no other Gods. The Bible says that God is spirit. He doesn’t have a body. Also, He is eternal. Even the Book of Mormon says this. However, Joseph Smith discredits this. He says God is not eternal. This is what happens when you build your religion on what men say. Men are deceitful. The BIble says “the heart is deceitful above all things” in Jeremiah. Don’t base your beliefs on your emotions or the words of men, base it on the truth of God’s Word, the Bible.
    What has happened is men have added what they want to scripture and called it “divine revelation”. This is detrimental.

    As for the triune God that you mentioned. That’s a discussion that will take more time then this site, Hg, could or should afford us. My suggestion to you is this: When you read scripture, you need to read it in context. Meaning in context of the chapter, the book and the whole Bible. John says that Jesus was the Word in the beginning, He was with God and WAS God. ALL things were made by Him and NOTHING was made without Him. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. In being “made flesh” the Word of God becomes separated from God in the form of a man, which is the Son, but still one with God. God is also still spirit and is God the Father. This is why Jesus speaks of His relationship with God in both ways, as the Son (flesh) and as an equal. He was divine and he was dwelling in human flesh. He was not just one in purpose with God (that’s a manmade concept that goes against what God says about Himself). All throughout the New Testament this is what is taught. Jesus is God and He is the Son because He lowered himself to dwell in human flesh. Please read Hebrews. It’s even taught in the prophesies of the Old Testament, “For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given…… and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father” in Isaiah. Isaiah also prophecies that a virgin will give birth to a son and his name will be called Immanuel. In the NT, Matthew says this again and defines Immanuel for us. It means “God with us” .

    Also, Jesus will dwell in your heart when you believe in Him. Belief is not just an acknowledgement. It’s putting your faith and trust in Him as Savior and Lord. Obeying His Word is believing in Him, who He says He was. He will then dwell in your heart through the Holy Spirit, who is also one with God, but separate in manifestation. It’s not an easy concept to understand. No one understands it fully. But, to make God something that He’s not in order to appease our own understanding of Him is a major mistake. We have an incomprehensible God! Your doctrines make Him human. Your doctrines lower the identity of Jesus. He becomes no more than a literal son, of a human god, who volunteered to sacrifice himself. You also believe you are a literal daughter of a human god. That makes you Jesus’ sister. You also believe that Satan is Jesus’ brother as well as your own brother. None of this is Biblical.

    Shanny, I know you love Jesus. I know sweet David does too. I encourage you to read His words in the Bible with a child like-heart, without preconceptions. I know you’ve probably read some of them before, but don’t you think they’re worth studying, if you love Him. Read all that He says about Himself, and all of what happened on that “holy week” 2,000 years ago, in His Word, the Bible. Abide in His word(s). That means live in them, dwell in them. Don’t dwell in the words of men.

    We celebrate on this day, Good Friday, the fact that God sacrificed Himself for us on the cross. Not only did He lower Himself to dwell in human flesh, Out of love for us and with joy, He took on our sins and paid the punishment for them on the cross! Remember the cross. Embrace it! It’s where new life begins for all who will receive it no matter who we are or what we’ve done.

    Hebrews 12 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    • Shanny in Australia

      Thanks ALC. I know you are sincere. And passionate. Lol. I’m grateful for that. Keep loving God.
      Unfortunately I think you’re too busy preaching to be listening.
      Thanks for chatting though, all the best and I’ll see you over on the current threads. 🙂

  41. I came back to thank you for your honesty and sharing what you believe.

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