Fan Wars

MattClayton2So, I’m back from earlier today, and I realize I had a moment of what folks used to say, “being feisty” (heh).

Here’s the thing: Sometimes these debates between fans can be entertaining, infuriating, crazy, out-of-whack, and exhausting.

I stepped away from my own blog earlier today because I needed to calm down and assess what it was that had irked me this particular day.

Funny thing is: It’s not even about different posters having their own say or disagreements about the usual things (i.e. the direction David was heading, the level of career he might have, the “wisdom” in taking time off to do a mission, etc.). It was something else.

It’s not even about “policing” each other on the appropriateness of how we should direct our fandom or how we should feel about adoring someone like David.

It was something much more infuriating for me, because it seemed to have been festering for a while on this blog, which has caused fans to either whither away, take time off, or disappear, while a handful keep going back and forth.

I could have kept an ongoing argument but decided to step away.  Strange, because if I was getting that annoyed/upset/not even sure how to describe my feelings, I did have some technical options at my disposal: 1) Close Comments 2) Moderate Comments (and then what? Only approve those comments I like and then be trapped in a 24/7 ritual of approving/rejecting comments?) 3) Shut down the blog with a simple “Delete” button in my settings?

Wipe out nearly five years of writing and fascinating drama and interactions? Over the actions of a few?

Nah! That’s too drastic! And, as some have said: that’s just picking up my toys and leaving the sandbox (except, even if that’s what it was, why shouldn’t the little toddler pick up her toys and leave the sandbox when the other kids are making the sandbox “not fun anymore”?).

I guess that’s what was at the core of my anger today: This wasn’t fun anymore!

And as another commenter once noted: It didn’t matter what topic I chose to blog about, invariably the conversation became less about that, less about David, and more about what we were doing wrong as fans.

I realized that I had some thoughts about the current Justin-Bieber-crisis and how I found it interesting that this teen star had been propped up at the expense of David’s own career.  What had started out as a good conversation (with different people expressing interest or questioning or even sharing other sources that could corroborate some of my hypotheses) began to enter into different commenters’ shared opinions on how this information either affirmed or made them question their own reasons for following David all these years.

Out of that conversation, an assertion was put forth about what “bad fans” some people seemed to be, and for the first time, I called out someone who was probably not even conscious that the tone in which the criticism had taken was rather dictatorial. I had felt that that type of dictatorial tone (i.e. there is a “correct” way to be a supportive fan, and you’re not correct) was also sexist in its directive, and in calling it out, I was then accused of taking sides and not playing fair.

Both comments were steeped in some kind of “righteous authority” about how we should be comporting ourselves, and I was outraged that anyone could come here on my blog and talk to strangers (mostly) as if they knew how any of us lived our lives (let alone how we feel about David and what he and his music has meant to our lives).  There was a tinge of disrespect, which reeked of certain members from a certain gender, age, or class background feeling they have a right to regulate and legitimate others.

I don’t take kindly to others trying to “correct” me and others, especially when in that “correction” is this assumption of righteous authority.  There are ways to disagree with each other without disparaging the other.  There are ways of disagreeing with me without making accusations about me and how I conduct my blog.

No one is perfect (not even David), but we don’t have to assume the worst about each other either, and it’s unfortunate that any fan who makes a criticism of David is automatically assumed to be disloyal.  If you disagree with the assessment, just say so. Present evidence to the contrary, if you have such to provide. But accusations of disloyalty, hysteria (a loaded gender term), and whatever else that allows you to dismiss any of us here as a “good fan” are just not helpful to the dialogue.

I’d rather not Close Comments or Moderate them, and I’m not ready to shut down Soul David, but in the mean time, as we await David’s return, let’s show some basic respect.

And if I bit your head off (because I felt that you had disrespected me), my apologies for showing you my claws. Just know I don’t take kindly to anyone daring to claim “righteous authority” over me and my actions.  M’kay?

Posted on January 25, 2014, in fans. Bookmark the permalink. 80 Comments.

  1. Omgosh!! He looks gorgeous in that picture!!! I. mean. what the……
    Ok, Hg, now to read your post. 🙂

  2. As a daily lurker, I just want to say:
    Hear hear, HG! 🙂

  3. Good Post,hg. I believe what you wrote is a very fair and balanced way to address an issue-as always. Back to watching NetFlix.

  4. HG- i very much appreciate you doing this website for david and us fans! most of the time, it’s really super fun so thankyou for putting up with our occasional craziness/insanity! 🙂

  5. HG, you are great. That’s all.

  6. Thanks, KH.

  7. Ok, I read it and thank you. I too, will try to be respectfful of other posters. I hope you coninue to run the site as you have in the past.

  8. HG-I second that, I appreciate all you do to keep the home fires burning, for giving of your time and for providing a place for us to talk about all things David. And yes even the things we seem to get side-tracked on a daily basis. I love your topics, they sure get me thinking and looking at things from a different prospective. Sorry if I seem to be one of your “Problem Children.”

  9. HG, this is the only site where any controversial subjects about David or his life are allowed or even discussed. The discussions here can get heated, passionate, and downright nasty, but, so what? I thought that when David left on his Mission, there would be no fan sites and no discussion about David after about 6 months. I have been pleasantly surprised to learn that I was very wrong. The interest in David did not take one day off during the past 2 years. People still post and care about him, his twitter followers have increased, and the drum beat marking his return is increasing by the day.

    No need to fret over what is going on here. It shows how relevant David still is. I must say I’ve never been called chauvinistic before, but I’ll get over it, lol. No one really knows anyone on these sites, unless they’ve spent any real world time with them. I’m sure I have misjudged some people here and I know that conclusions about me that some people, including you, have reached, could not be further from who I really am. This happens in the limited environment of the Internet, so we all have to live with it.

    The good news is that David will be returning from this seemingly endless 2 year hiatus in just a couple of months. At that time, we will have so much present day David stuff to talk about, the personalities of individual posters will take a long overdue and refreshing back seat.

  10. HG, I have always appreciated your site and love every single post. I’m so grateful you have decided not to shut down. I apologize that I’m a part of this whole nonsense that sometimes erupts, I will use restraint in the future and continue to try to keep comments respectful.

  11. HG , thank you for supporting David with this fan site. He is soooo worth it !!! Bliss, why do we need a place to be nasty or harsh to each other? Why not try to be more like the young man we all care about, each for our own reasons.

  12. oliveoil- i agree. there is no reason for us to criticize each other. we should all be united in this fanbase especially now with david coming home soon.

  13. Olive Oil, nastiness or snarkiness is just an occasional byproduct of spirited discussion. It certainly should not be the intent of any discussion, but sometimes it just goes in that direction. As for fans being more like David in these matters, I never claimed to have the maturity of David Archuleta, even though I have more than a 40 year head start in doing so, lol. David’s maturity has been a source of great admiration for me, and the way he deals with “difficult” people (shock jocks, etc.) has been like a tutorial in interpersonal relating.

  14. just to clarify- i have no problem with people disagreeing about things, the debates here are usually very interesting, it’s just when it gets personal and people get upset then maybe it’s gone too far but i do love the drama every now and then! lol 🙂

  15. Trying to re-create my last comment which disappeared somehow…..but, I’m back from a lovely family day at “David’s Beach”, to find that our irate gentleman has found some reason to attack someone again. I guess I’m slow, but I usually have to read the comments several times to try to get what he could possibly find so offensive, lol.

    Anyway, I know that David has said that he doesn’t pay attention to politics, but he did say in a (poorly translated) interview in Asia that he would have endorsed Romney, if he had been asked personally.

  16. CC Halo, if i wasn’t afraid that HG would shut down this sight, I would tell you exactly what you could do with your nasty, unprovoked, and totally mean spirited remark to me that adds nothing to the advancement of this discussion. Please try to refrain from doing this in the future. Thank You.

  17. Romney.. pretty funny on Fallon
    forget the politics he is lds he can do this so can David

  18. HG, count me in as one who appreciates this blog dedicated for David. Thank you! This blog is a refreshing change from the other fansites where freedom of speech is discouraged so thank you for that as well. And for always “Keeping It Real” for David.

  19. You were talking ABOUT me , so you just proved my point. You don’t get a free pass at nastiness just because no one else calls you out on it. Instead of being part of the problem here, how about trying to be part of the solution. Had you read the previous posts on this thread, you would have learned that people are trying to improve the level of dialogue on this site.

    • Yes, I’m very glad to see that we’re turning over a new leaf in the last, oh…8 hours. Happy to see it.

  20. senseless- oh that’s good! i was just about to launch into my pro romney rant! lol

    • I cried tears of joy when Obamacare passed, because both of my children have pre-existing medical conditions which would have kept them from being insured, unless they were fortunate enough to work for a company with benefits, which is especially hard for young people. No progress had been made in 75 years on this problem, and I applaud Pres. Obama’s courage in getting this accomplished. Now we just have to iron out the kinks, or perhaps even get to single-payer one day. Ironically, it’s almost identical to Romneycare, and Romney is incredibly hypocritical to pretend that it isn’t.

      So there’s my pro-Obama rant.

  21. My post at 11:55 is in reply to CC Halo, btw.

  22. One more comment then I’m out for the night. 🙂

    The Jimmy Fallon video with Romney was funny & smart as most of Fallons skits are. I would love for David to be a guest on his show! Question is, would David agree & be comfortable if Fallon were to add some digs about his mission or his Mormonism because that is what Fallon would surely do. All in jest of course. But would David ever be open to that possibility? I’m not so sure.

    Of course, just wishful thinking that Fallon would ever have David as a guest. What a coup that would be for David though!

    Good night now. BTW, I have a feeling David will be home much sooner than anticipated which may be why it’s been so still & quiet.

  23. Still & quiet, except for here at SD of course! 🙂

    Peace, out!

  24. HG, I regret that comments in the previous post went so fast that I did not comment on how “spot on” you’ve been about the Justin Bieber machine. You do a great job of analyzing the pop music scene.

    I want to add my thanks to those from others here. You take considerable time with your blog, finding new subjects to post on (even when sometimes the comments take a turn away from the subject). You are one of my favorite bloggers for your well-written, insightful and varied blog posts. Thank you so much for all you do!

    Thank you also for keeping a firm hand on the helm. You set a great example.

    Finally, I am sorry for what I’ve done to allow “bad fan” dialog continue. It is, alas, a topic about which I am notably super-sensitive. Being (slightly, heh) self-aware, I promise to the urge to participate in that kind of conversation in the future. No flame fanning! I truly am sorry and would be heartsick for you to “pack your toys and go home” like others sadly have chosen to do.

  25. HG, you don’t mention it, but I was wondering if you had read the commentary on The Voice, which summarizes the recent going-ons pretty well, I thought.(Le Chat on a Hot Tin Roof).

  26. Shanny in Australia

    HG, this online fandom thing began to be no fun for me approximately 2 years ago and came to a climax a few months back. I am mostly here, mostly just lurking now, simply because I desire to be loyal to David. I am pretty sure this fandom thing became no fun for many others a long time ago too.
    Unfortunately, there has been much disrespect here for a long time now. I think you have to demand respect and decency in all things or allow the conversation to go how and where it will. Otherwise sides are being taken. Personally, I vote for respect in all things. Free Speech + respect & compassion = effective dialogue. But free speech coupled with disrespect & lack of compassion just equals a bunch of people who are no longer listening or caring.

  27. Shanny in Australia

    Cotton Candy, on a side note, I have been wondering for a long time now…..are you glitter girl? If not, you two would get on like a house on fire! lol

    I also used to vaguely wonder if Kimak and Marie were the same person. Obviously not now but both you ladies sound the same a lot of the time. Virtual twins. lol

    • Shanny ha nope just post as myself.. found out a while ago best to just be me.

      • Shanny in Australia

        Yeah, I didn’t think it was your style….. but you ladies do sound the same a lot of the time. lol

        (not that I think theres anything wrong about people having different usernames for different sites. Only think thats an issue if they also have different personalities with those different usernames. lol)

    • Shanny-I take that as a compliment. lol. I do most always agree with kimak and enjoy her comments. I do think that kimak is probably more diplomatic than I may be at times. I only post on SD. I actually rarely even visit other David sites anymore- not that there any many left. I never go to David’s OS. I think there is work to be done on the OS when David returns.

      • I agree with you Marie although I’m so happy that the OS has remained active, it is an area that will need sprucing up when David returns to his music career. I’m sure that all areas of his music career will be addressed and thought out carefully by David and his team in order to re activate his career and somewhat re invent himself as an adult singing star.

  28. I also do not have twitter-check it online but do not have it. Nor facebook. I am really out of it. lol.

  29. Yes-cq-I am hoping to see improvements in David’s OS when he returns-actually I don’t know why his team does not start right now. It is not too soon and yes I am going to add IMO. LOL.

  30. Aren’t we all a bit dysfunctional under duress? Maybe that does explain some of the drama lately.

  31. I’m getting tuned up for the Grammy’s tonight. The Beatles are being honored with a Lifetime Achievement award… what took these bozos so long? Anyway… I find myself getting all amped re all the action surrounding the 50th anniversary of their game changing appearance on Ed Sullivan on 2/9/64. Nietzsche said, “Without music, life would be a mistake.” I’m inclined to believe that where Beatles music is concerned. Wondering how pop music and the industry would have been/would be without them is not a headspace I want to dwell in. Revenue from their music sales and memorabilia still provide a substantial amount of dollars to the bottom lines of the ever dwindling revenue generated from the industry, so 50 years on from their landmark arrival and Paul’s musings in the jaunty “When I’m 64”, the answer is a resounding YES! WE STILL LOVE YOU, WANT YOU, NEED YOU! It’s all about the music, man.

    • ITA-beauxcefus. I am looking forward to the Grammys too. They are really the best awards show.

    • Beau-You’re right, its about time…fifty years of being revelant in itself is a milestone…the Life Time Achievement Award is so fitting and well deserved. I did get to “see” them once when they performed in Atlantic City. See being the keyword as hearing them was out of the question with the bazallion screaming girls! They set a trend in pop music that is still being carried by todays artists. I find it ironic, and plesantly so, that David chose “Imagine” as his breakout song on Idol, at least it was for me. I will definitely be watching tonight!

  32. What we need is that awesome dry sense of humor from David to make things all right in the fandom world, lol.

  33. HG I want to thank you for continuing your site and tell you how much I look forward to reading any new essay you create on it whether a David topic or any topic! Lately I have been simply skimming the comments to read those that address your topic or interesting by-products and skip over the discussions that seem to pop up over and over again no matter what the topic. But that is just the standard “comment annoyance” which occurs anywhere comments are allowed. The world of the internet is an interesting place. Meanwhile, I can not thank you and the wonderful writers at SnowAngelz and the Voice and FOD for writing thoughtful, heartfelt, witty, silly blogs that have helped those of us that just can’t get enough of that Voice realize how many of us are out there still.

  34. Good Morning/Afternoon everyone. I rarely comment here but I do check out occasionally all the David sites since he’s been away. I agree that they seem to stray from the blog subject here quite frequently. With David’s homecoming so CLOSE, it amazes me that anything negative should be shared openly among his fans. Of course there are concerns. However; We’ve waited two long years for his return and we’re almost there~ Wow, how great is that! Only thing I want to do now is look forward to the celebration of The Year Of The Archuleta! 🙂

  35. Oh, I just realized that I did not also thank the keeper-of-all-things-David Jackryan4da over at The David Chronicles who along with Abrra at the Voice keep us stocked with all things visual and musical/ David. David is really a lucky guy. When I think of all the other people who have come off of Idol or the other “talent” shows, how many of them have we heard about in the last 2 years? And yet David has so many people who may grumble sometimes but simply have his back and hope that everyone can have the opportunity to really hear that voice. (and now Spanish fluency is a very big step in world domination (ha!) since David will feel confident in his Spanish which he did not before and he also has strengthened his connection to the wonderful world of Latino music.

  36. CC Halo and HG, since YOU saw fit to bring up that article on “The Voice” in which they “defended themselves” from mean old Blisskasden, allow me to inject some truth about it and them, hopefully for the last time.

    First they deny all allegations and call me a liar. Then then admit to some of the allegations, but meant
    no harm because they were just kidding around. The article was designed for one goal, to limit the damage caused by my exposing their sleazy treatment of David on a public fan site. My claims have been corroborated by other people who saw what I saw, and you can read the posts of these other people on this site and in the comments section of that article.

    There is no defense for what was done to David, just damage control. I’m sure the women on The Voice appreciate the blind support they are getting from their sisters on Soul David.

    I regret having to post about this again, but had to do so because YOU would not let the matter die. Please don’t make me post further embarrassing evidence of what has already proven to be true. David deserves better.

    • “sleazy treatment of David.”

      I disagree that they treated David in a “sleazy” manner (and there you go trying to police/morally regulate/tell women how they should monitor their feelings about an artist they admire – AGAIN).

      But don’t worry: I’m not shutting down my site/gathering up my toys because one man in the fanbase is clutching his pearls over some older women who are googley-eyed over a fine-looking young man.

      Are you really Mike Hucklebee in disguise? I kid! 😛

  37. I must be in the minority here as I do not go to other david fan sites at all anymore. Have not for a long time and I think that it will remain that way. I sure have never commented at other sites-used to lurk on snarkies and some others. To be honest I am fan of this blog and not just David. I enjoy other music artists as well-like Kelly Clarkson, Bruno Mars ect. I have no idea what others are commenting about at times and really do not want to. lol. I am sure that not everyone has agreed with me at times and that is more than OK with me. Don’t really care. lol. I just hope that David gets a first class and well connected management team and a record deal with some great music producers and writers when he returns-I do think that is important.

    • really do hope he gets a team as good as he is talented.. he sure deserves it!

      HG sure hope you are not going anywhere.

    • Marie I’m so glad that you are still a fan of David, not just this site. I was thinking that maybe that wasn’t the case, so it really was so nice to read this comment.

    • I don’t visit other sites either. Do have twitter for david and others. Even before D left, I had scaled back to mainly SD, unless twitter or a comment in SD sent me elsewhere.

  38. HG, here’s the deal. If a fan site of older men showed videos of a young female artist, and made the same kind of comments to that young female, you and all the other outraged women who have chastised me for exposing this, would be tripping over themselves to call these guys “dirty old sleazy men” And you know what, you would be 100% right in doing so. David deserves the same respectful treatment from his fans as his female counterparts in the music biz do from theirs.. David is a respected artist. He’s not a Chippendale’s dancer.

    As for Huckabee, I have nothing in common with that misogynistic, homophobic, Tea party wacko.

    • David is a gorgeous, sweet young man there is no doubt but it isn’t his age for me at least that dictates whether I think they are sexy or not for the most part. I think sexy is not necessarily a Chippendale guy.. it is more a combination of looks, body, who they are and how they go about the world. for instance I think Brad Pitt, Hugh Jackman, Bruno Mars, Nick Jonas, Sting, Harry Connick Jr are such and they are a variety of ages. David can be kind of sexy at times but for the most part I think he keeps that side of him if there is such a side to himself for whatever reason. he is quite adorable and for the most part I would compare him with Peter Pan and not Magic Mike.

  39. o come on now bilss you know dam well men get to geather and talke about women the same way,and mean no harm.david knows dam well how he efects women and some times poses just to get then stired up.he is no dummey..he knows dam well where his bread is buttered although i tend to agree with you most times ,you can take it to far some times .peace

  40. ITA-kimak.

  41. I think so too Kim, I can throw a few more in that mix, Phil Collins, Enrique, Elvis, Rod and even MJ! When Michael danced, there was nothing smoother or sexier on the planet! Could have watched him all day. Same with David, he has it going on in all departments… looks, talent, natural swag.

  42. I know older men who routinely gather together to talk about high-profile younger female pop stars all the time. I don’t have issues with them admiring an artist’s beauty and sexiness – I only have issues when they use derogatory and misogynistic language to describe such women. And even then, you know what I do when that mess happens online? I stay FAR AWAY from such sites b/c I’m not trying to get sucked into that vortex, nor am I interested in policing such men (unless there is proof that they are engaging in underage sex trafficking – and that just means I report them to the FBI, not get into an online debate about their conversations).

    If women ogling a young male pop star on a site bothers you, I would probably do likewise because it’s not meant for me.

  43. The fact is that David is very sensual on stage, and nobody “feels the music” like David. I’ve seen him perform live 6x and have been blown away by the transformation that takes place the second he walks out on the stage. Personally, I think David is about the best looking guy out there, and that mega-watt smile of his doesn’t hurt either. Now that he’s 23 years old, he no longer needs”protection” from me or anyone else. That being said, he still deserves to be respected, as do all artists and people in general, male or female. I’ve never been about telling anyone how they should feel. It’s all about how fans of my age group openly discuss David on public sites.

    Fans of our age “may be old, but we’re not dead” is very true, but we also, IMHO, can use the wisdom of our life experience to publicly demonstrate how to love David in ways that celebrate him in a manner that does not disrespect him.

    • All good points. But I still do not believe that the women you are referring to disrespected David in the way you’re describing. I really don’t believe that. We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on that issue.

  44. Speaking of fan wars, after seeing above that the Beatles are being honored tonight, I went to Youtube to view D’s “We Can Work it Out.” Then I looked at the comments beneath it and saw 5 yrs of AI fan wars. I just can’t even begin to rehash that discussion, lol.

  45. HG, you certainly have every right to “look away” from bad behavior when you see it. I certainly could have done the same thing, and would have saved myself from all this cyber-bashing I have received for my trouble. Nothing criminal has taken place on any site, although one could make a case for libel in some of what has been said about me, lol.

    Men have been treating women like objects for their sexual amusement, and worse, forever. As a man, I have had to endure this locker room nonsense since I was a teenager, and never participated in it. This caused me to be occasionally shunned by my peers who saw this behavior as their “right”, and saw something wrong with me when i wouldn’t “get on board”.

    What I and others saw on “that other site” was the female equivalent of that kind of behavior. It wasn’t “high crimes and misdemeanors”, but it was, to me and others, disrespectful of David. I tried to not have to name the site, as I have met some of those ladies, and was not interested in personally shaming them. Unfortunately, it continued and I was unable to do that, and the rest, as they say, is history. Now that it’s been hashed, rehashed and dehashed ad nauseum, why don’t we put it to rest, and concentrate on welcoming David, the person who is at the center of all this drama, home from his Mission.

    How about less Blisskasden and more David Archuleta? He’s a helluva lot more interesting and can even sing better than me.

  46. Just to add some fuel to the fire, lol, here’s one of my favorite “old lech” David sites, and hilarious to boot:

    • cc halo ha getting bored? that was a funny site.. like Idol Forums was wild. also miss Snarky Archies too.
      think whoever posted a Jesus thread and all went to hell after that.

    • Oh, Orlyy! Hahaha! Those were some fun times! Remember how much life was had in David’s pants! 😛

    • goodkarmaseeker

      Yup, Orlyy was pretty great and shockingly fun!!

  47. Snarkies is there, sort of, but few people were posting so everyone stopped posting. I’m hopeful that when he’s back and moving again, career-wise, they will return. I liked their spunk.

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