Why You Gotta Be So Mean?

So, what is up with people today? The week just started, and I was subjected to two different, grown professional women who were close to tears because somebody’s meanness (i.e. BIGOTRY) took them back to those childhood years when they were bullied because of their racial difference. Seriously!

I’m referring to:

1.) Brittney Cooper, a plus-sized black female professor (someone whom I once met at an academic conference), who wrote about her experience during the 4th of July holiday, when a mother (traveling with her two sons!) texted that she had to sit next to a “Big Fat N-” on the plane.  The hateful words brought back painful memories.

2.) Julie Chen, the Asian American CBS host of “The Talk” and “Big Brother” revealed how the racism exhibited on the latest season of Big Brother brought back memories of when her schoolmates made slant-eye gestures and referred to her with racial slurs.

GROWN women taken back to that hateful place of childhood when little bullies didn’t know any better because they were all about ID and not yet developed in considering the hurt feelings of others.

GROWN women! And I’m going to keep saying that: GROWN women, who were having that hurtful moment because, yes, GROWN people are resorting to hurtful, mean, bigoted remarks. Absolutely pathetic!

So, I gotta ask: not just the Taylor Swift question – “Why you gotta be so mean?” – but the more obvious question – “Why have you not developed any social skills as an adult that would prevent you from being so mean?”

Seriously, have people gotten meaner?  The story about the Big Brother contestants mouthing off such hateful racist and homophobic slurs oh-so-nonchalantly was absolutely mind-blowing.  When did we sink so low as a society that any GROWN woman or man would think such a personality disorder (and let’s be real, folks: Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a big deal!) would help gain them fans and a bid to win a reality TV prize? What’s going on?

And why would a GROWN woman who is a mother of two be oh-so-cavalier in texting (TEXTING! This leaves a record!!) an insult about who she’s sitting next to on a plane?

This is normal behavior?

Some folks will say: Yes, HG, there are lots of bigots out there, and their bigotry and overall meanness is just the way they think and express themselves. 

I’m not so sure I believe this. Meanness and bigotry are not “normal.” They are, however, a normalizing process.

And I wonder how much of our digital culture has contributed to this?

Social media has been able to generate new information and enable folks to network and mobilize around common interests (whether in planning to go to the next big David Archuleta concert or organizing street protests against a regime – see Egypt – or a corporation – see Occupy Wall Street).

Still, for all the positives of the Internet, there are so many negatives, to the point where folks have been warned against reading comments on You Tube, they are so toxic in their racist bigotry.

Heck, even here, Soul David has gotten a reputation for being anti-LDS, just because some commenters have been highly critical of his faith (critical to the point that it’s become customary to always have such comments, even if my blog post is about – oh, I don’t know, David’s THIGHS).

Perhaps social media has enabled the no-filter function of our opinions (and God knows I do not have extra time in my day to sift through and moderate comments on a regular basis, nor do I want to since I’m absolutely convinced that the folks who congregate here are – let me repeat that – GROWN adults, who should have enough sense on their own to express themselves while filtering thoughts that may be deemed offensive).

But how do you FILTER for offensiveness? I’m ready for our computer geniuses to create that next big gadget because it would save a whole bunch of us a lot of angst, hurt feelings, and exasperation.

Not to mention: we need a FILTERING gadget to clean up the toxins left behind in digital culture.  When the term INTERNET RACISTS has become a given, you know our Mean Culture has gotten out of control.

So, you know, you expect that on Social Media. How the heck, though, does that end up on a network TV show? And why, when traveling on a plane, would you be bumping up against someone who texts that you’re the N-word?

What is that about?  And are people really that mean? Or, are they only mean because a computer or mobile phone brings out the meanness, or a camera turns them into Mr. Hyde?

How do we become better people, even if the culture encourages narcissistic behavior and an environment that suggests that you don’t have to care one iota about somebody else’s feelings?

But, I could go on and on about the Internet and its contribution to Mean Culture.  At the end of the day, our gadgets are just that: tools. It’s how you use those tools that reveal your essence.

When certain celebrities opened Twitter accounts, I often got a glimpse of less-than-flattering people whose filters came off.  It only took 140 characters to reveal the unpleasantness?

And that’s also, ironically, how I became an even bigger uberfan of David Archuleta. He was part of that early generation of celebrity tweeters, and not once did he ever tweet offensiveness (well… okay, okay… there was that one time he upset some of his gay fans when he laughed off the fact that he was seen at a gay club .. but still, no meanness there).

David exhibited the qualities of a person who always thinks before speaking (or tweeting) and who is very considerate of other people’s feelings. I’d like to think such qualities are the rule, not the exception.

Perhaps it’s a sign of good that so many are outraged over such bigotry exhibited in our world today. Still, we could do better, and more role models like David could counter this culture of meanness.

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Posted on July 9, 2013, in current events. Bookmark the permalink. 87 Comments.

  1. Very thought provoking post once again Hg, thank you. Never thought of myself as mean spirited, but after reading this post because of my strong feelings about organized religion I guess that expressing my feelings is hurtful and I need keep my feelings to myself. I would not ever take back what I stated because I felt it wasn’t directed toward a person. So I guess it’s alright for strong minded religious people to post their feelings about how wonderful their religion is and that it’s the only way to live, but it’s mean if I don’t agree because I’m attacking their beliefs. I’m a bit confused, and a little hurt right now.

  2. hell0g0rge0us

    CQ, sorry you’re feeling hurt and confused. I totally get how you feel about David’s choice of faith and I totally support everyone’s right to voice their opinions here.

    But here’s the thing: if someone says, “You know, what you said about the faith I practice is really hurtful,” I just think people should be more reflective about what they post if someone feels hurt.

    I mean, we all do it, and I know I’ve occasionally caused offense with certain posts.

    I always say, apologize and keep it moving. But I also think: be more cognizant about what’s said and posted. Aren’t most Archies aware that LDS devotees are apart of the fan base?

    To me, meanness comes from being completely self-absorbed and uncaring about others. You don’t strike me as that way at all, CQ.

    But I do know enough people have felt uncomfortable about anti-LDS opinions around here to express their own thoughts about it.

    I just think we’re all grown enough around here to respectfully agree to disagree without generating hurt feelings.

    Seriously, there are all kinds of things about the LDS faith I disagree with, but I sure as heck won’t stop worshipping at David’s feet b/c of it, and I’m fully aware that LDS folks frequent this blog, so why start a debate/fight when the faith is beside the point, but our love for David isn’t?

    Also, you said this: So I guess it’s alright for strong minded religious people to post their feelings about how wonderful their religion is and that it’s the only way to live, but it’s mean if I don’t agree because I’m attacking their beliefs. I’m a bit confused, and a little hurt right now.

    This sounds very defensive, as if there’s a tit for tat thing going on. As in, “So and so does this, so I should be able to do the same.” Is that really the point, though?

    And when some folks are extolling the virtues of their religion, are they saying this because they’ve already been put on the defensive, or are they trying to indoctrinate others into believing this? I believe in God, but I don’t expect atheists to share my joy when I attribute something to a greater power. I do expect them to respect my belief, and an atheist can more than say they don’t believe what I believe without belittling my own worldview. RESPECT! RESPECT! That’s really what it boils down to, right?

    • Thank you Hg, I do understand and I have been holding back as of late. Yes, the same here it won’t stop me from worshipping at David’s feet, lol.
      We agree to disagree and move on.

  3. I won’t comment on the religious aspects of this post because I don’t feel that I can or should. I think people have a right to whatever their beliefs about religion and I want to respect that.

    I will say, however, that it seems to have become acceptable on social media to show racism. I wonder if it is worse since Obama was elected. It’s like it brought out the worst in some. Maybe because I really like Obama, I’m paying more attention to what is said? Perception is so tricky.

    • hell0g0rge0us

      It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of their racism is over Obama and the fact that so many people of color got him re-elected. Are you saying, KH, that this is all just noise and we’re hearing the final “death rattle” of an old system of bigotry? I sure hope so!

  4. I recently got off Facebook for this very reason. It turned into folks bragging about their professional accomplishments, vacations, etc. and I could see certain folks kissing up to them. It is ridiculous and I’d rather spend my time reading and in nature than on Facebook. We aren’t in high school anymore, but unfortunately this behavior continues in adults, albeit often dressed up in different ways. This social media is definitely a good way to get in touch with long-lost friends and relatives, but it has been very positive for me to remove it from my life.

  5. I was thinking that certain people might feel threatened to have a black man in power. (Actually, I have no doubt about that. I just wonder how much that feeds into the recent open bigotry we’re hearing about.) I hope you are right, though, HG, and that the majority will be outraged by the incidents and will keep talking to those around them about how wrong it feels.

    Actually, that’s why I prefer that we continue to talk about our differences, here and elsewhere, even when the discussion is tough. Maybe we just need to learn how to speak (or comment) and listen (read) with more sympathy for those who haven’t been living our lives. Case in point: Our culture also supports bigotry against those who are not Christian. I’ve often read the notion that Atheists=Satanists when that is unlikely to be the case — the ones I know don’t believe in any supernatural powers. The ones I know are also not angry, negative people (on the contrary…) but that seems to be a perception that’s out there.

    But this is not my blog, and I’ll respect HG’s opinions and rules and if religious discussion gets shelved, I’ll certainly understand why.

    • hell0g0rge0us

      Hey, I don’t want to censor any discussions. I just want us to tone down on hurting/hurt feelings. To me, silence isn’t the alternative to mean culture. All that does is repress the meanness, which occasionally erupts into some ugly expressions.

      Can we talk about our racial, ethnic, and religious differences without causing offense? That’s the kind of “growing up” I wish we could all do on these topics.

      • Works for me.

      • I like to talk about those differences, and for obvious reasons David’s church is going to come up more than most. But it’s a little hard to know what will cause offense. People can air strong complaints about the Catholic church, for example, and no one says a thing. In the midst of what seems to me, a pretty neutral discussion about the LDS church, people will complain of being bashed. Perhaps there’s a cultural difference or sensitivity there, that such discussions are “anti-Mormon”. IDK.

  6. This is a timely post, HG.

    First off, I want to say I’m sorry if I offended any of you the other day. It was not my intention. I was trying to find a kind of funny way to illustrate what I was perceiving as ironic and I apologize if it was taken as mocking. I guess it’s hard to find that line between trying to keep things light and funny and real but also non-offensive. And I do think that sometimes we are overly sensitive to things and see them as an insult to ourselves or something we hold dear when it was never meant that way at all. I’m guilty of this as much as anyone. Thanks for the comments back — I didn’t mean to imply that I was leaving forever lol. I just felt like it was better to take a little break until I was back in the right place mentally. 🙂

    Meanness. After reading this post I spent some time really trying to figure out why we’re seeing so much of this type of thing lately. Not just misunderstandings, but outright MEAN. I watched a video showing some of the live feed footage from Big Brother that detailed the bigotry happening there — I found it so disheartening. It was the continual offensive name calling but also the seeming acceptance of it by fellow housemates. The casual cruelty. What’s sad is I don’t know that any of them even realized they were being cruel. Maybe if you sat them down and explained why but in the moment it never even occurred to them. I don’t know if that’s worse or better.

    I feel like this is partially the result of a culture of “me”. We are taught to focus on ourselves so much and how special and wonderful we all are. While I agree with that philosophy to a degree (we all need a healthy sense of self), I think it has backfired in unexpected ways. It’s like we teach kids to care about themselves but we have forgotten to teach them to care about others too. And I shouldn’t limit it to just kids. It’s behavior that can be taken on even as an adult. So then I guess the big question would be, why does it have to make people mean? I don’t have a good answer for that. I do believe though that the more we interact with people on a personal level in real life, the greater our empathy and understanding for different situations is. People spend so much time on the computer now that I think that real life interaction is suffering and so is our ability to empathize. Online it’s much easier to completely surround yourself with like-minded people who cheer you on when you post that offensive remark. And then it starts to bleed back over into your everyday life. Kind of a vicious circle.

    I will admit that one thing that has kept me drawn to David over the years is his caring & gentle spirit. He’s unlike most celebrities that are fame-focused. I know that has worked to his career detriment at times but I wouldn’t change a thing about his heart. The voice drew me in, the face made me raise my eyebrows but the heart is what stole mine.

    P.S. Desertrat — I’ve got you down on the wedding guest list 😉

    • Just Lurking

      “I will admit that one thing that has kept me drawn to David over the years is his caring & gentle spirit. He’s unlike most celebrities that are fame-focused. I know that has worked to his career detriment at times but I wouldn’t change a thing about his heart. The voice drew me in, the face made me raise my eyebrows but the heart is what stole mine. ”

      Loved this, Ali.

      HG, as always, an insightful, thought provoking article. Thank you.

    • lol, i’ll be there at the wedding.

  7. HG has blog posts about David’s THIGHS?

  8. Beautiful comment, Ali. I agree that it is David’s kind and gentle spirit that keeps me involved, also.

    Your take on the meanness is interesting and I think you made good points. On Facebook during the election season, I had SUCH a hard time because I felt like I was constantly being hammered with extreme negativity. Some came from people who, when I see them in the real world, come across as friendly, sweet and harmless. They say more, or pass along more, on social media. Had a real hard time knowing how to proceed with the friendships. (None of this was racism, mind you, but plenty of it was offensive to me in other ways.)

  9. LOL, Kimak.

    Also wanted to say that CCHalo, I agree that it is tough to know how someone will take what is said. I can’t remember anyone being outright mean on here, or at least not in my view, but I do know that topics can be sensitive depending on a person’s perspective. Recently someone said something n here about Taylor Swift being untalented, and although I did not agree (I think she’s a good songwriter and I was a fan of her earlier works) I certainly didn’t feel hurt and let it pass. Depends on the level of passion for and connection to the person/idea being criticized.

  10. cotton candy

    i think we all think mean/offensive things from time to time but for the most part we know not to say it out loud. but we all have a different definition of “mean”. that’s why we can’t let the govt decide for us what it appropriate or we will end up losing our free speech, one of the things that makes our country so great. david is human and i’m sure he has mean thoughts sometimes too and because we were listening to and analyzing his every word he could not say how he actually felt about something or someone and it might be one of the reasons he wanted to go on his mission, to get away from the fans and the media.

    • Understand why you might think that David wanted to get away from fans and the media, but I really don’t see it that way at all, omo. I really feel that it was a tough discussion for him to make to leave his career (which include his fans) for two years, but I believe he felt he needed to do it in order to move on and really be ready to give his all to his music career. I’m only saying this from a career and fan view. Before anyone corrects me, I know that his priority was his religion.

  11. I don’t know maybe the world would be kinder if we focused more on the fun things in life instead of what tears us apart?
    what is that saying.. make love not war?

    anyway I think the more there is stress and suffering in the world the more agitated or intolerant folks seem to get.
    felt that way this morning with some of the younger fans smacking down David for his appearance.
    going to take a guess we are all missing him big time.

    • cotton candy

      i think you’re right. the world seems to get crazier every day and everyone seems to be on the edge of freaking out. we are living in very stressful times. that’s why i like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and be forgiving cuz we’re all dealing with alot.

  12. Ali, I totally agree with you about the “culture of me.” I was raised in the last generation before “self esteem” became a thing. You earned self esteem by being good to others and working hard, not by being told you are wonderful. In some families that’s still true but less so than it used to be.

    I see much more meanness out there than there used to be. I wonder if part of it is frustration that there are so few places to work hard and accomplish things? I also see a very different side of life when visiting my husband’s family who are from a rural area where racism and religious prejudice are much more obvious than in the cities where I grew up. I have to leave the room when certain discussions start up because I’m too much an outsider to speak up. I think this kind of culture feeds on itself.

    I watched my father change from the man who taught me to judge no one by appearance to a raging tea-partyier I couldn’t even talk with.

    This has been a very thoughtful discussion. I think the world IS meaner than it used to be. People who use meanness to gain attention seem to be everywhere. I think I’ll go pet my cat.

    • Humm, wonder if meanness has always been, but because of technology it just seems to be more apparent because of it…just a thought.

    • Lol, missbianca. I’m sitting here as my three dogs bark and play biting games with each other. Maybe some of us are cat people and some are dog people in more ways than one, ha ha.

  13. cotton candy

    cq~ exactly

  14. HG,

    I have also noticed the mean, not so much in person but in social media. Some forget it’s public and say things without thinking at times or intentionally hiding behind a blog name.

    Keegan Woloss ‏@KWOLNation 1h
    Does this persona bumper sticker really say “David Archuleta is #1”

    I tweeted this
    djafan#DA2014 ‏@djafanTheVoice 53m
    RT @KWOLNation Does this persona bumper sticker really say “David Archuleta is #1” << Cuz he is 🙂 (@davidarchie)

    before I saw this
    Keegan Woloss ‏@KWOLNation 1h
    @djafanTheVoice DON'T RETWEET MY SHIT

    And got this
    Keegan Woloss ‏@KWOLNation 41m
    @djafanTheVoice @DavidArchie he's a human butt plug

    My ODD has me retweeting all mentions of David as long as they're not negative but was that last comment necessary? Just mean IMO.

    • I think this guy would still be mean even if there was no twitter.

    • hell0g0rge0us

      Ugh! This is exactly what I mean! Some folks’ minds are simply in the gutter, and when they unload their trash on social media, we get covered in the muck. So sorry you had to experience that mess, Djafan! Disgusting!!

      😦

  15. cq, yes probably.

    missbianca, It took energy not to respond. It usually only adds fuel to the fire and his use of @davidarchie in his tweet made me cringe. I’ll have to be more selective on who I retweet because the mean element.

    • Facebook and twitter are amazing medias, but with each positive, there is always negatives. The negatives are the ones that stick out like soar thumbs.
      Example what started off an innocent re-tweet, turned so ugly so quickly. The one thing that I’m hoping happened is that more people were disgusted by the tweet than thought that it was funny.
      Optimist that more people were disgusted.

  16. Anytime you give someone (mean or not) the option(freedom) of expressing their feelings while hiding behind the grey granite of a keyboard, you end up with what could be a mean, explosive statement! Makes you wonder…what are they like in real face to face life…just as mean? Or perhaps they dont have the needed male anatomy to say things to your face…

  17. Just this morning I read this article about social media – facebook in particular, about the new environment we’ve created and how easy it is to not only post things we wouldn’t say in person or in public, but also how things can be so easily taken out of context, and the consequences that follow. I think we’ve almost created a society where it is ‘cool’ to be mean. There is little civility anywhere anymore and our society is becoming increasingly contentious. When it is so easy to express your opinion about a political candidate, a religion or a celebrity that will never know who you are or what you say, we lose a sense a humanity, that all people are real and have feelings that can be hurt. (Don’t worry, I’m not talking about David, I’ve learned not to go there with him). 🙂 We somehow feel that our right to say whatever is the most important thing. I think what we have to learn is that no, there are times when it is not.

    Here is a quote from the article that might pertain: Social media lends all users a “public” persona, and when users try to present themselves in a way that matches how they want to be seen, this can lead to trouble. Part of the problem is that the norms of one community aren’t the norms of another. So when we produce one version of ourselves for one context — say, our family — but behave quite differently in the workplace, the frameworks can clash on social media.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/05/199074493/when-social-sharing-goes-wrong-regretting-the-facebook-post?utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20130708

    So I’ve been struggling with this issue a lot. I usually take the world-view that when someone says or does something that is hurtful, they are deeply hurting themselves and totally unconscious of the pain it causes. I also like to take the world-view that I have the ability to choose whether to take offense or not to something – it’s within my power to ignore and take the higher road.

    But as we all know, that position is a difficult one to maintain. Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jesus – those kinds of folks knew how to do that consistently and I’m definitely not in their league. I try and occasionally succeed, but usually I do not, especially when it is something I hold sacred or love deeply. I realize I don’t understand the animosity towards another’s religion. Not agreeing with doctrines is fine, but animosity is puzzling. I’m still trying to figure it out. I also realize that others cannot understand the Mormon viewpoint, especially some of us that have the history of persecution because of our religious beliefs in our DNA. When HG talks about the bigotry bringing up old hurts, I can relate.

    I know I have been on the defensive sometimes when I post and I sense that I come across completely the opposite of what I really am trying to say. For that I apologize. Thank you, HG, from the bottom of my heart for this forum. I’m sure David would thank you, too. 😉

    • lots of good points in that npr article, esp. “our human tendency to “perform” on social media can lead to regret.”

  18. An important post, HG.

    Sadly, the anonymity of the internet makes meanness easy. Whether it comes in the form of a profanity laced tirade or persistent subtle sarcasm, it is simply electronic bullying, digitalized trash talking, cyber rage. Frankly, it is close to impossible to have a civilized online discussion about sensitive topics. We can’t hear vocal inflections, see facial expressions or read body language. When we don’t see eye to eye, we really don’t see eye to eye. Without those social cues that tend to keep our less admirable impulses in check, even good people are more prone to disregard others’ feelings in order to score some kind of point.

    There are lessons in this post for all of us, and I have enjoyed reading all the thoughtful comments.

  19. All you have to do is read some of the comments on sites such as CNN ect. to realize that people can be mean on the internet. The comments that are posted on SD are very nice and thoughtful in comparison to other sites/blogs as they do not bother to monitor comments on other sites. You just have to ignore it. I do check twitter on the internet but I do not have it and probably will never with it.

    • I do agree with you about blogs in mainstream sites. This site as well as all of David’s sites are very tame compared to them. I don’t go to other artists fan sites (just not interested), but I wonder if the meanness factor can be found on those sites sometimes?

  20. Speaking of reading something in internet that kind of pertains to the meanness factor.
    I just read this from a religious leader’s wife (NOT LDS) that she wrote on a newspaper that she has a column…”Santa and the Easter bunny are simply the devil in disguise and cable television and the Internet are his playground. The Boy Scouts are his evil minions,”
    Now I just wonder, is that mean spirited? Or does she have a free pass because of her beliefs.

    • In my opiinion, CQ, even though I don’t agree with what that person’s comment about Santa, etc., it is my opinion that she is simply stating her religious opinion. Perhaps since she is writing about religion, you might find it informative if you discussed it with her directly.

  21. Well, if we’re going to use such an extreme opinion as SANTA AND EASTER BUNNY ARE THE DEVIL as an example, here’s what I think:

    No, this is not “mean-spirited” (lots if extremists demonize symbols associated with consumer culture).

    What IS mean-spirited is characterizing the Boy Scouts as “evil minions” (assuming the evil is based on their acceptance of gays).

    I don’t think it’s offensive to say you disagree with homophobia expressed by religious people, but there is a difference (to me at least) between calling someone out on being offensive toward certain groups and belittling certain groups because you don’t agree with them. JMHO.

  22. I agree with you about the Boy Scouts part of the comment, HG!
    And cq, what I meant by saying that it might be informative to discuss it with the writer directly was that if you commented on her column or e-mailed the writer, she you might be able to ascertain if she was saying something extreme to draw attention to some of her beliefs or whatever her views are or simply let her know how you felt about her statement and see how she responds. Sometimes it helps to go directly to the source. I can conjecture that she might be saying about the Easter bunny, etc that they represent materialism as opposed to her views about what Easter should be about, however, the Boy Scout comment was very drastic.

    • I got what you mean now, I have no interest in doing that, but understand.
      I just brought that quote over here because I thought it pertained to the post, that’s all.

    • According to the news reports, the column was sarcasm, and the minister and his wife actually support gay rights. The minister was asked to resign in part because he supported allowing a gay member to participate in the choir. Just FYI.

  23. Even though I replied to CQ’s question, I can almost predict where this is going. So, please let’s agree to put a moratorium on these LDS debates.

    Not because I want to censor religion but because I’m tired of the conversation.

    AND I DON’T CARE! Really, I don’t.

    The only time I will care is when David himself says something publicly disparaging others. I have faith that he won’t do this, but if he ever does, he loses me as a fan, and I shut this blog down.

    And if he ever behaves badly, he gets to shoulder all the blame, not his faith.

    • Sorry Hg, I just thought it was pertaining to meanness and how meanness might be perceived by some as just ones beliefs ( not always just regarding religion) and others as mean hearted.

      • Sorry if I’m going where I shouldn’t, but I agree, cq, that some belief systems can be mean. What could be meaner than not allowing a gay member of your church to sing in his church choir, and then firing the minister who supported him? The minister’s courage makes me cry to think about.

    • I agree about who shoulders the blame, but if the faith gets any credit for his good behavior, one would have to consider the flip side as well.

  24. I know this one is not pertaining to this topic. I was just wondering what you guys think of this Scotty McCreery Sued By Former Manager, Todd Cassetty (UPDATED)

    • I had read that and wondered what the McCreery’s side of the story was. It sounds troubling.

  25. hell0g0rge0us

    According to the news reports, the column was sarcasm, and the minister and his wife actually support gay rights. The minister was asked to resign in part because he supported allowing a gay member to participate in the choir. Just FYI.

    In other words, as often happens online, a quote is taken out of context.

    You know when I stopped getting caught up in dissecting David’s church? When a fellow Archie once emailed me privately about some “damaging” information about the LDS church. Sure enough, I was sent “proof” via a link about all the crazy, outlandish doctrines of the faith, only for me to delve further and find out that this “irrefutable” evidence of outlandish LDS doctrine was actually featured on an evangelical church website that was invested in proving the LDS church to be some kind of anti-Christ cult!

    I pointed this out to this fan, and of course, she had to apologize for spreading misinformation.

    The same thing happened right after the “announcement,” and folks were sending me all kinds of “stories” about David as this big “Jesus Freak” who was completely brainwashed!

    We keep throwing shade at this particular church, and I’m just tired of these conversations about a faith that some of us wouldn’t care about if David didn’t practice it. I don’t think these conversations are helpful, especially when they aren’t always based in real evidence, just some stuff somebody read off the Internet (how reliable is the info?).

    At the end of the day, what insight does it really give us about David? Whether he’s seen as positive or negative, what are these stories supposed to be telling us? I don’t think they tell me anything of relevance.

    Next subject! That topic about McCreery and his management? Yeah, let’s talk about that! Much more relevant to our concerns about David.

    • Once again as I said earlier I apologize for bringing that quote over. I really was only thinking about the meanness factor and how things can be perceived. Religion will NEVER be brought up by me in any form. Because it was brought up on the post, I really thought it might be on the table.

    • Shanny in Australia

      A sincere thank you HG.

    • One little quibble: The evangelical churches have seminars and all kinds of information on almost ALL of the other churches that they don’t agree with. I have some very nice religious friends who have attended these seminars, including ones on both of my former churches. It’s very common to see the faith of my childhood called un-Christian and a cult. I don’t agree with either characterization, however, other than that, the information they present is pretty accurate. I think the reason they do this is to have the tools to preach to and convert people of the other churches, and they are fairly successful. Of course as a non-believer, it seems to me like the pot calling the kettle black.

  26. i am not this person.

    (peace Ladies.)

  27. I know we’ve talked about the finances of the music industry before but I saw this article yesterday and though it was a pretty eye-opening illustration of how things are now.

    Justin Timberlake Is Just Getting By: http://www.thestreet.com/story/11972010/1/the-digital-skeptic-justin-timberlake-is-just-getting-by.html

    Kind of amazing to think that he has the #1 album of the year so far (and it is #1 by more than double it’s closest seller — he’s at just over 2M sold and the next closest is in the 900Ks) and his take home from that is likely well below $1million. I know, that’s still a lot of money but just consider again that he is by FAR the best album seller of the year and that gives you an idea of how much the small fries are making on their albums. Admittedly, some of the costs are offset by much smaller marketing expenses but in the end there’s only so much pie to go around. Definitely it takes innovation to make a living in the music industry today. You clearly can’t just sit back and expect to make a living on album sales.

    • Ali wow seems you need to have add ons to make any money these days in the music industry.
      hope that means a lot of acting, fragrances, modeling and concerts!

      Gladys lol the look on her face!

    • Eye opening indeed. My thought has always been that if David was a mega star that he wouldn’t have to worry about money therefore, he could records/tour and give us music to delight us fans, but from this article, that’s not even true now. That’s it David needs to act, model and indorse products, etc…to keep the music going.

      • I agree. I always thought it strange that some fans disapproved of David acting and modeling in the Philippines. I kept thinking how smart that was because he could earn money to use to record and mount a tour in the U.S. it certainly doesn’t hurt his career here because most people don’t even know that he was even in the Philippines. I hope his receives more opportunities like that when he returns from his mission.

  28. I find that story on Scotty getting sued by his previous manager interesting. It was mentioned by someone, maybe Peter?, on the previous post. So my question is who is Scotty’s music management now? Is it his family ?

    • Was reading about it over at MJ’s earlier. No one seems to know for sure who is manager is now (sounds familiar) although it sounds like his parents are kind of unofficially managing him (sounds familiar) but the consensus seems to be that he really needs to get professional management before the sophomore album drops later this year (sounds familiar). 😉

      • hope they get things together before the release.

      • Thanks Ali for the info. This sure does sound familiar. lol.

      • I thought the same thing when I read about Scotty being sued by his manager at MJ’s, that it all sounded familiar, but at least David wasn’t sued. I had thought that Scotty’s manager was doing a good job because Scotty got some nice T.V. appearances to promote his Christmas album that I wished David would have had for CFTH. I guess Scotty (or his mom) didn’t want to pay him industry standard rate for his services from the sounds of it. Scotty has an album coming out this fall so as we know from David’s experience, he really needs a manager for that. Scotty seems to be on the same album schedule as David – first album in the fall after AI, Christmas album the next fall and sophomore album the following fall.

  29. There was a time in the beginning of my fan posting when I would have dug my heels in, deployed my shield and discussed (and defended) till the bitter end what “I” believed to be right with little or no regard for what others believed. Once sanity returned, I realized that I didnt know Jack about the LDS Church, its members or David for that matter. Im thankful that sanity isnt wasted totally on the youth!

  30. A very good read HG and appreciated.

    I look at it (David’s religion etc.) like something that is not anywhere I want to go or have the time for. It is important to him and I don’t have one sentence that I want to say about it because it is his and not mine.

    I think that I follow him instead of trying to lead which means that if he talks about his particular religion then I might comment but he doesn’t do that so it is not of any interest to me. We have been spending time after talking about it and it is in no way part of what I see when I see him or hear when I hear him, therefore let his religion be only where he keeps it. I mean this for those of us of different faiths and of the LDS faith. Let David show us as before, the territory to talk about. We don’t spend time with other stars and their religions so that’s about it, that’s where it should be, We make controversy by bringing it to the front when David and his voice and who he is, is all that matters. To honor David and all the enjoyment that he gives through his music, leave his religion out of discussions. All we have to do is read about it in the news or in recorded history and move on. Some people want us to talk about their religion but I don’t believe that David does.

    SB

  31. just read Adam Lambert is joining the cast of Glee.. hoping David will be able to get something in the US too one day.

  32. I always thought that Glee would have been a good fit for David but it just did not work out. David did want to do it too. Good for Adam but the show is not as popular as it was at first. I think the ratings are slipping. Glee’s creator, Ryan Murphy, is gay and is very supportive of gay artists and having gay characters on Glee and his other shows. Adam will always be OK as he has many connections in the entertainment business and even did when he was on AI. I don’t think his albums will sell that great anymore but I could be wrong.

    • Yes, I do think that Glee is a good fit for Adam and it would been nice exposure for David a few years ago, I just think he wasn’t ready as an actor. That acting gig in the Philippines was great because it really got him thinking he could act and he really liked it. Maybe there will be some acting for him in the US in the future, to help pay for his music career,lol. I’m still hoping that something is in the plans for David that will get his career back on track.

    • Oh, Peter, I was just going to post this but you beat me to it. Talk about a young celeb that can’t handle his fame. He is getting more outrageous every day.

    • JB needs to take a very long break but they are all still making money off of him. The sad part is I believe his career will be in trouble in another 5 years when he is older. He acts like a spoiled entitled brat and has for years and no one close to him puts him in his place. Instead they defend these behaviors and he gets publicity out of it.

  33. When David was in his own young heyday, I packed my suitcase and travelled to see him as often as I could because for one reason, like all good things in life, nothing stays the same for long. I knew that, I knew the time might be limited. Yes, he is a good example to people as you will say but it is inevitable that most young singers just don’t keep singing without something side tracking them in one way or the other. Great for some and not for others. The concern to diehard fans is, will anything ever be the same or better than before? Will this fast moving world allow for a repeat performance? It is such a merry-go-round….It is rare to have the opportunities to sing and act like some of the greats in the past including Bing Crosby and on to Cher, Bette Midler and more recently Jennifer Hudson. As a fan, I always hope for the best for David in any direction that he takes.

    SB

    • I think if David had a team that was talented as he is his career would of been better. for instance Adele and her 21 CD..
      quality musicianship, writing, producers compliment her amazing vocals. hope all can come together for him when he returns.
      as for the other things to help him pay for this I am totally on board. it will be fun!
      you mention Jennifer Hudson and I do think she has a great voice but not so sure about her choices with her music. didn’t seem to click for me.
      Fantasia surprisingly I think is doing well.. she found the niche that works for her and I think she is doing well for the most part.
      could be mistaken but I think she will be performing on Broadway soon too.

    • Yes, you are right, SandyBeaches. It is extremely difficult to sustain a career in the entertainment industry especially when started at a young age. We have no idea what opportunities David will get when he returns. Unfortunately bad behavior gets more publicity than good. Will David’s career take off again? I know he will always sing as he is singing now. The question is will he have enough paying gigs to sustain a career in music?

  34. Could not agree more kimak.

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