High Culture, Low Culture: Where David Fits In

I don’t take particular pleasure in knowing that Simon Cowell is most likely set to fail with his ultra-trashy, dismal, embarrassingly dull, and crass new reality talent show, The X-Factor.  I was more disgusted by what was shown than what was not and so didn’t even bother to tune in for Thursday’s show.  But, it’s no surprise that the show has so far received negative reviews, and a parenting group has urged the FCC to fine its premiere show.

But, what has this to do with David, you might ask?  Well, as long as the most visible thing David is known for is that he was that darling kid with an amazing voice from American Idol (and a hit song called “Crush,” made possible because he came in as the show’s runner-up that year), this trashtastic affair will invariably taint him and others known for their humble beginnings on such shows.  Especially since egoistic judges like Simon Cowell can still claim that they “discovered” David.

Of course, I don’t see such nonsense tarnishing the likes of fellow Idol alumni like the original winner Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Chris Daughtry, or Jennifer Hudson.  But there’s a key difference: these artists have successfully severed their Idol ties by receiving accolades elsewhere.  The fact that their artistry has been awarded with Grammys, Oscars, or by simply establishing fanbases well beyond those who watch Idol, means they don’t have to even acknowledge the jokers who gave them a chance to shine on the show.  This is partly why, I imagine, some of David’s fans wring our hands over David’s career.  He didn’t reach enough of the distance needed to sever similar ties, and one hit song does not a severing make.

At the same time, whenever I pop in my DVD of Glad Christmas Tidings and just bask in the pride I feel in our beloved, fall in love with his twinkling eyes and open smile all over again (like the first time when he performed “Heaven” during Idol’s Hollywood rounds), and let a wave of joy wash over me everything he unleashes The Voice, I get goosebumps thinking of what it will be like when he appears on PBS channels this Christmas season, singing with the legendary Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  This is the same choir that has sung with the greatest operatic singers and music legends like Natalie Cole, David’s idol.  For David to be the youngest singer to perform with the MTC is really quite an accomplishment, and I just get chills everytime I think of David’s vocal powerhouse and the way his Voice rings out so crystal clear against a full orchestra and full choir – the spontaneous standing O he received after performing “Silent Night” testifies to his greatness.

Now if only David realizes just how dang good he is.  If only he will develop an ego on par with Simon Cowell.  And I say this because he really needs to take the reins of his career and make a decision.  This schizophrenic split between appearing with such classy acts as the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and having started with “cheesy” shows like American Idol really makes it hard to categorize him.  Which direction should he go in?  I mean, I’d like David, once he finds his “sound,” to make a clear decision. I’ll follow him if he becomes the next Josh Groban or the next Bruno Mars, I don’t care, but can David make a final decision on this? While I doubt there will be a sizable crowd of young adults watching PBS’s Mormon Tabernacle Choir Christmas special, we won’t have to worry that enough people will immediately say: stick to this type of music.  However, there is good money and an established career David could easily have going into this genre, if that’s what he wants.

But do we know what he wants?  It’s still hard to know just from his first two albums and his disagreements over Jive’s direction for him. I’m also more concerned about his IMAGE than his SOUND.  Let’s get real: whatever SOUND emanates from THE VOICE is going to be awesome. What’s more important is how he sells that sound. What image will he feel comfortable marketing, and has he matured enough to not be fretting over being a good little Mormon?  Even the Bieber happily spurts out the name of Jesus when he accepts his accolades, so the issue is not that David can’t be popular within his religious identity  (the Bieber and Jesus – hello! Donny Osmond and the LDS faith – hello!  The Book of Mormon on Broadway – hello!!).  It’s having a bigger vision for yourself and allowing yourself to have an edge. And in that vision of being “cutting edge” is knowing where you fit: are you about building your career in high culture or appealing to low culture, or even finding the middle ground?

As an aside, I must say what has always frustrated me about David’s nonprofessional management – whether it involved David’s “team” or family members – is their complete lack of creative vision.  It’s like they can’t see how David functions beyond the state of Utah or beyond a certain subset of the Latino community (depending on which parent is influencing David at the moment).  Even when they set up his tour shows, they keep hitting the same old venues: usually in some non-metropolitan suburb or somewhere out in the Third World (sorry, Asian fans: love you guys’ support, but I would like to see David tour Tokyo, Beijing, and Mumbai, if he’s going to headline an Asian tour). How on earth can David’s fanbase grow like that, and did they already eat up the $1 million David earned when coming off Idol?

I’m concerned that David is finding his “sound” without an established producer (there’s no Rick Rubin or even a David Foster), but of course that’s hard to do without professional label or management, isn’t it?

It’s not like I don’t have confidence in David.  Correction: I have all confidence in The Voice.  His songwriting ability? Not so much (yes, I said it – that’s just not his forte). Even the legendary Michael Jackson realized he needed a Quincy Jones, and that opportunity didn’t come along until he ventured out of his safe box to star in his first movie, and while The Wiz was a flop, it’s now in the history books as the place where MJ and QJ magically came together.  How will David create these opportunities for himself? Will he find the courage – like MJ once did – to get beyond family management and make creative things happen for himself?

And yes, folks, let’s always remember: Michael Jackson did not become Michael Jackson until he found the courage to replace his father with a music mentor, which he found in Quincy Jones, a man who wasn’t even producing pop music at the time because he only worked on jazz.  Collaboration and creative, independent vision is key.

Granted, there are new “announcements” about to be revealed, and for all we know, David will let us know he is making some creative opportunities that will have a huge payoff. One can always hope.  I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

In the mean time, I look forward to when he can really shed off the Idol shadow and sever the ties in the public’s image of him.  Because Simon’s latest adventures tarnish anyone who was ever associated with his reality shows.  Heck, I don’t care how much a $5 million contract offers the X Factor winner, their “talent” is forever smeared with that godawful auditioner who dropped his pants on national TV.

To be honest, I don’t know if Simon is just messing with us, or if his mean-spirited cynicism is such that he is contemptuous of the American public, truly believing that enough people will buy his nonsense. Oh wait: we did!  His name is Lee DeWyze.  More than that, tons more still believe what he said about David: that he’s only a “tween and granny” vote grabber.  How he went from telling David “you’ve got so much going for you: you’re likable, you’re good looking, and you’ve got a great voice” to dismissing him as “predictable and treacly” is a reminder of the fakery of these reality-based talent shows.

The flip side of course is: the X Factor – U.S. edition – will crash and burn so badly, the American public will have to reassess everything he ever said.

I just want David coming out on higher ground, leaving “low culture” far behind in the dust of his tracks.

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Posted on September 24, 2011, in American Idol, current events, David's career. Bookmark the permalink. 201 Comments.

  1. I am Mormon, and I think David spoke with President Monson and told him of his desire and willingness to serve a traditional two year mission. However, I think like President Kimball told Donnie Osmond many years back when he said the same–‘You ARE on a mission, just a different kind.’

    Ordinarily, missions are quite similar but vary a teeny bit depending on where you serve. There can occasionally be a difference. For example, we have a family friend who went to Finland on his mission about five years ago. He talked about a missionary in his area who gave piano concerts for the Church all across Europe. That way, the missionaries were able to fellowship those who came–make friends for the Church, get acquainted a bit–even if those who attended weren’t currently interested in taking the discussions.

    I assume that when David says he goes to the temple once a week and in different cities where he travels, that he attends temple sessions there and is not doing baptisms. If so, that means he’s been through the temple and received his endowments. When I told my sister that (she served a mission in Denver 20+ years ago), she said, ‘Then he’s NOT going on a mission.’

    Typically, people go through the temple just prior to serving a mission, right before they marry in the temple, or when they’re older adults. Prior to a mission or marriage is the only time I’ve ever heard of a young adult being endowed.

    They might have made an exception for D because he is worthy and willing to serve a mission (and may actually have put in his papers). Plus, he is actually kind of serving already. From what I’ve heard, a number of folks have investigated the Church (and some have joined) because of his good example of righteous living and because they want to know what has made him the way he is–a joyous, peace-filled human being, bursting with integrity and kindness who loves everyone.

    He’s uplifting, an inspiration to us all, members or no.

    • But he doesn’t seem to wear the special undergarments. Or maybe he does, and that’s why he sweats so much.

    • Thanks for the info bookaholic. Interesting.

    • If you don’t mind my asking, what is normally required for this?
      “If so, that means he’s been through the temple and received his endowments”?

      One thing about a traditional mission I would think the church would be concerned about is security for D. I am sure they want to keep everyone safe but if anything happened to D, it would be
      very bad publicity- even if D pushed to go. It would put them in a difficult situation to have to worry about that.

      • I recommend this article and the photos, to the girls who gushed about wanting to be a bride seeing David waiting at the altar, so handsome in his tuxedo. Think again.

      • Too.much.info 😐 …not sure if i need that much, i’m not exactly happy with David’s church to going on more deep with the additional information right now.
        Sometimes i wish David fansites still in the music category 😐 that was at the end the reason for people to come to the fansites and Yes! he s very good guy, good role model in terms of his moral values ….at least what we can see, but this kind of links conflicting me about his innocent image and what the kind of activities he make part ….non offense , i guess is just hard for me to picture him on this roles.

        And i don’t think is a good idea to post this kind of links ….just my opinion ….. i guess i gonna walk too with my dog…oh wait i don’t have one, so i just gonna walk …see you later.

      • I don’t think it’s a good thing to only present a whitewashed version of what David is trying to convert everyone to. Whether he’s serving a mission through music or an actual one, he’s still trying with all his might to convert people to this religion.

      • That was interesting. Some I generally knew and some I did not. I had a Mormon friend in school who “shared” with me. We had some interesting conversations and I respectfully read his brochures and information & then returned to him. At any rate, certainly helps underscore the challenges of having a foot in both worlds. in addition to all the other pressures of the business that David or any young celebrity has to endure. While I am sure it is the goal of the church to convert, just as other churches and religions try to do the same. I would definitely not make the assumption you have cchalo that David is personally using his career for that. I would say the opposite. I think he has too much respect for other cultures and other religions. In fact, IIMO he has gone out of his way to keep that separate in his life, unless he is specifically asked and it is relevant. Perhaps he feels he has not done enough, ergo the mission talk. Who knows really?

      • Well is an old discussion, but i don’t think he is consciously using his career to ‘Convert’ people to Mormonism, like someone said long time ago in IDF , i would feel betrayed if that was his intention from the start, i do think though that he genuinely want to share something positive about to have a relationship with God and have a good attitude facing the difficulties, that is a very valid point and well received ….. i guess? and yeah , probably in the way some people get to close to his beliefs in term of full doctrine, but that is a each one, especially the adults ones, like i said many posts before i only don’t like when teens are approached in his sites with a different intention to the one of support his career…. for the rest , if people is full informed about where they going in ….. that is they business.

        Still thinking is not a good idea to post links of any sort related to beliefs, just because i don’t think is easy to handle.

  2. Thanks for your answer, Bookaholic. I hope you are right about President Monson telling David that he is already serving his mission, just a different kind. I could, however, see David giving concerts in Europe like the pianist. I just think that God gave him this great musical gift that he shouldn’t keep under wraps for two years serving a traditional Mormon mission.

  3. He would definitely be singing and playing in Church if he were on a typical mission coz all who play or sing are asked to participate that way from time to time. However, I think the mission David is serving right now is as an ambassador for the Church…and a great one, at that.

    • This is entirely off topic but as a David fan that lives in western New York I just have to say : Go Buffalo Bills!! lol They won today.

      • Aaah, my dad is from Buffalo, and still a Bills fans. That’s great, Marie! I’ll let him know, if he doesn’t already….Last Christmas, I looked everywhere for a Bills sweatshirt or cap, & couldn’t find one. The store clerks said: “Well, a team has to win a few times in order for their stuff to be in demand”. lol.

      • Yes if anyone deserves a super bowl win it is the Bills and their fans after the years of heartbreak. lol We will see how they do this year.

  4. But before , I will love to see ‘Look Around’ pushed like single ….. i prefer this kind of speculation tbh….that can be exciting , if they really work for the song . 😉

    • LadyVmusic Victoria Hornღ♫♕❀✿♥☆
      you’d have to ask @DavidArchie re look around being the next single.. 🙂

      Or maybe is true? 🙂 if not why she would bother to replay and RT ?

  5. cchalo:

    wow that article you posted is frightening 8-0

  6. do I think David can be great, amazing.. but of course! and I do think it is his environment that is holding him back. his family, his self worth and his religion seem to keep him from going for the gusto best I can see. hope as he matures he will come to realize just how great he is and go for it one day. looking forward to it.

  7. Tibi, the walk with the dogs was just what I needed! Although, they actually walk me!
    Looking forward to what exciting news David has to share. Too many speculations to try and pinpoint what the announcement will be! Until then, I guess I’ll just go with the flow, wherever that goes! 😉

  8. I am a daily reader here because I am a fan of both David and his glorious voice. I am also a fan of HG’s writing. I appreciate the open discussions regarding David’s career, but as a lifelong practicing member of the LDS faith, I often cringe when the speculation drifts toward David’s religion. Too often the comments here contain a hodgepodge of fact mixed with misinformation and/or erroneous assumptions. Some of it is laughable and some of it borders on offensive.

    It is risky to talk about religion in most settings, let alone a fan blog, because it is too easy to offend, even unintentionally. Since HG’s house rules state to “always be respectful of both David and each other,” may I politely suggest that those who want accurate information about Mormon doctrine and practices go to an official source, such as http://www.mormon.org or http://www.lds.org. I recognize the enhanced curiosity because of David. That’s fine. Mormons welcome curiosity; but to visit websites created by atheists, anti-Mormons or disgruntled excommunicated Mormons makes about as much sense as asking a Republican what makes Obama tick.

    Regarding the mission angst: Mormon missionaries are not salesmen, they are teachers. They also give many hours of service to those in need during that time. It is easy to see why this appeals to David. Will he serve a traditional mission? I have no clue, only my personal opinion, which does not matter one whit to David Archuleta. If he goes, I get it. I understand his perspective and his motivation. If he doesn’t go, I get that too, although I tend to agree with bookaholic that he is already there. Either way—now or two years from now—it will not affect his standing in the church or how I feel about him and his talent.

    • Thanks for sharing the information MHO. I agree that religion is a risky and complicated topic. I understand your concerns. I was raised a Catholic and to be honest I don’t even totally understand much of the doctrine or teachings in my own religion let alone another religion. David does give back to others and does a wonderful job with that. David’s music career and the direction it is headed or lack of direction at this point is what really interests me.

    • Thanks for the sites. I did read the authors bio and saw he left the church years ago and was an atheist so I took it with a grain of salt as I do much of what I read on the internet.

    • very well said MHO! david said several times in previous interviews that he’s already serving a mission, and i firmly believe that he’s not going away next year…also, with his older sister claudia’s condtion, i don’t think he would want to go far away for two years. remember after his AZ concert, he was supposed to go back to CA, but detoured to Utah to be with his sister who was having a hard time…btw, i’m so excited for david’s tour announcement! i’m pretty sure he can still sell out o nearly sell out those medium sized venues!

    • I would never bring up religion in a fan site. But when it has been repeatedly brought up by people advocating that religion in the name of an artist whose goal is to proselytize and convert people to that religion, I believe that it is fair to reply, and to address the rosy picture that is being painted.

      So I have “politely suggested” that there is another side. It’s odd that people sometimes think that it’s offensive to even present that other side, and never seem to actually correct the so-called “laughable” misinformation.

      When David’s book was about to come out, posters on IDF were worried that he was going to push his religion, and one poster said something like,”Is he going to talk about the [garments]?” (She didn’t say “garments”). Mormons pounced all over her, calling her “misinformed”. Then non-Mormons chimed in to say that she was being ridiculous and that she obviously didn’t know what she was talking about. During the conversation, the LDS posters eventually admitted that, yes, there is such a thing as sacred undergarments, but that, of course, it was disrespectful to call them magic etc. and that they don’t like to discuss it in public.

      It’s easy to call someone misinformed, and attack the messenger as an atheist, but Mother Teresa stopped believing in God shortly after starting her work in India, does that mean you wouldn’t believe her about Catholicism? Also, if someone was trying to convert you to Scientology, would you only read Scientology.org or whatever they have or would you also want to know what former Scientologists had to say?

      • Mother Teresa what? 😮

      • I have not seen anyone advocating becoming LDS because David is. I sort of feel like I started something by asking Bookacholc an honest question that I was puzzled about. Did not mean to start a fire or a religious debate. I was surprised by the site you posted cchalo but did look at it as well as some of the links. I found it interesting but was surprised when I noticed it was by an atheist. However I respect his right to tell his story, just as much as the official church sites posted above. As far as have noticed, David/s message is music- to uplift, encourage, give hope, communicate emotion, tell a story and sometimes just have fun!

      • Shanny in Australia

        Cchalo….you would ” never bring up religion on a fansite” …. and yet you seem to consistently do it.

        As for your assertion that everyone complains about misinformation but no-one ever corrects it…..I discussed this with you not so long ago. I took a piece of the information you shared and showed you how it was misinformation. Specifically I showed you how it was ‘technically correct’ but because there was additional information missing and it was out of context, it gave an incorrect picture of the situation. I don’t think we need to comb through every little point of doctrine/principle that is raised. It would be laborious to do that on a fan website. That’s why people take the more appropriate route and simply post links to information sites.

        I also discussed with you how there is always ‘reporter bias’ in just about everything. Whether it is intentional or not, or whether it is a natural result of a person’s previous life experiences or whether it is in what a person decides to include and what to exclude….the bias is there.

        As for your question about Scientology or whatever…..I understand what you are saying – completely – but I have seen plenty of times that disgruntled people of any persuastion ALWAYS present a skewed perspective……so if I were investigating Scientology…no I wouldn’t go to a website that is designed for former scientologists to complain together, instead I would decide to be firm in what I know to be true and then carefully and thoughtfully proceed to investigate what devoted Scientologists have to say, measuring the information against my own personal truths and experiences every step of the way. Also if I was really after real understanding, I would be asking not just the ‘Whats’ out of context but I would also be asking the ‘Whys’ so I could better understand the ‘whats’.

        I recognise that you have presented the information in this thread because after reading anti-mormon websites you now believe David is gallantly trying to convert everyone to his religion and so you are concerned about people getting interested in Mormonism and want to protect them from making that mistake. I would want to warn my friends and family if I was worried about them too, so I can understand your motives there.
        I am sure David would love it if people discovered and embraced his faith. David’s faith is obviously very precious to him. Who doesn’t enjoy sharing something that is precious to them? However, I think it is also quite obvious that David has gone out of his way to not push his faith on others. In COS he wrote about his faith in quite universal ways for the most part. I remember hearing a story at a Meet and Greet once, where someone asked what his favourite church song was and he answered with a primary song about tree blossoms in the springtime. lol It seems to me that he has only ever once ‘indulged’ himself and expressed his great love for the Lord when he sang ‘Be Still My Soul’ and even then, he had to have a reason to allow himself to do that – he was at BYU Idaho and it was ‘Spirit week’.

      • Bookaholic: “I assume that when David says he goes to the temple once a week and in different cities where he travels, that he attends temple sessions there and is not doing baptisms. If so, that means he’s been through the temple and received his endowments.”

        rae: “If you don’t mind my asking, what is normally required for this?
        “If so, that means he’s been through the temple and received his endowments”?”

        me: http://home.teleport.com/~packham/temples.htm

        That’s it. That’s the extent of me “consistently bringing up religion on a fansite” Sorry if it’s hard to handle.

        I don’t read anti-Mormon websites (which tend to be evangelical Christian-based), I read those for former Mormons. There is plenty of give and take on those sites, and there’s ample opportunity to see what’s true and what’s just bitterness about what they perceive as being lied to. There are many on those sites who are very favorable about the church, but just don’t believe it anymore, and others who jump on every little thing and misrepresent the church. It’s still more real to me than the whitewashed official sources.

        I agree, and have said before, that David does downplay his church when not talking to fellow Mormons. But saying his mission is music, instead of going on a traditional one, still means pointing people to the LDS church, or it’s not really a mission after all. You can’t have it both ways.

      • Very astute post about a complex topic, Shanny I remember those comments you wrote earlier, and they were very informative and well put.

        I too feel like David has not been pushy about his faith, and if I’m not mistaken, it seems like most people who have commented here about that feel the same. cchalo, how do you know that David’s “goal is to proselytize and convert people to that religion”? Where’s your source?

      • Shanny in Australia

        Cchalo….

        First off, I’m pretty sure he only goes to the temple to do baptisms.

        …but if he didn’t and he was indeed doing things like what you have posted……what would that change? Ok…you wouldn’t want to marry him in the temple perhaps… 😆 😉 (just jokes of course). Besides many religions and secular customs have ceremonies. Off the top of my head…. graduations, christenings, marriages, Catholic and Anglican priests, Jews, funerals, birthdays etc etc

        I agree with you when you say the purpose of a mission is to point people to his church. And as I just said, David’s faith is precious to him and so I’m sure he would be delighted when people find the same faith. However, I think the catch 22 with David is that he naturally feels a reticence to share religious things. That is understandable too because he is not on an official mission where religious talk is expected by every person you meet, but instead his ‘mission’ is a bunch of people who aren’t there to necessarily listen to religion. So yep…he feels he’s on a mission but it’s one he’s probably naturally reticent to do. From following him these last 3 years, I would be surprised if he hasn’t chosen to simply preach a generic ‘faith, hope and charity’ instead of specific LDS doctrines! lol Either way, I think many of us are better people for having known David, no matter what our personal beliefs are.

      • Shanny in Australia

        Actually I should say…I don’t think he is naturally reticent to do his ‘mission’ because I think he is actually gung-ho about following God’s will in his life. What I guess I meant is… he is probably naturally reticent to get too religious publicly, like a proselytizing missionary would.

    • Thank you MHO! Everything was so well said. I especially liked: “to visit websites created by atheists, anti-Mormons or disgruntled excommunicated Mormons makes about as much sense as asking a Republican what makes Obama tick.”

      It’s tough to find objective information about the LDS Church. For those who want more than the official sources, but not the vindictiveness of the anti websites, one site that presents a balanced, mostly accurate, yet unflinching look at it is this one:

      http://www.pbs.org/mormons/themes/

      • Thanks for the link . 🙂

      • I would hope that you’re not saying that all Republicans are dishonest about President Obama. To be fair, you would look at both the Democratic and Republican viewpoints to determine truth about him. I may not agree with someone, but I don’t need to lie about their position in order to have my own.

        The article I linked to is well-documented and based on years of experience in the church. If there is misinformation, I challenge you to actually find it. It’s misleading to attack the author (the messenger) and smear him as an “anti-mormon or disgruntled excommunicated Mormon”, which is not true. Also, many fine people are not believers, it’s not fair to make that into a slur. It’s like saying someone can’t be believed because they are Muslim.

        This is also purportedly a balanced website: http://mormonthink.com/

      • Who are you replying to cchalo? I did not even mention the article you linked to. I did not refer to that author. I did not slur anyone. I am not lying about Obama. All I did was quote the joke that MHO made. sheesh

      • Sorry, Utahmom. You quoted MHO, and I was replying to your quote AND MHO’s, and anybody, anywhere, lol, who was talking about the link I posted.

      • The mormon think site is an exmormon offshoot deceptively designed to look pro Mormon. Believe me, I’ve had plenty of “Mormon” literature left on my doorstep by former evangelical neighbors. All of it looked deceptively like LDS material in order to deceive people into reading it. So, I wouldn’t consider it a very balanced site; but you of course can disagree, I’m okay with that. It is better than other sites, I admit. As a historian and a librarian, I’ve learned that an article is only as good as its source; check the sources on that site. That’s why I like the pbs site; they interviewed renowned scholars (both LDS and non-LDS). I will have to check out the housewives site sometime, I’m not familiar with that one.

      • Yes, I agree about Mormon think, that the pro-Mormon rebuttals are not really that convincing. The value I think, is bringing the topics forward. You can check the LDS apologetics sites, like FAIR or FARMS, for the more complete take on each topic.

      • I mean the more complete Mormon side to the issue.

    • Calm down people, is not your religion what gonna Save you!!!, good look if you still thinking that , because nobody have nothing in their pockets just because you go to a specified denomination …. Wake up !! Salvation is a little more that follow rules .

      And cchalo, i remember that discussion in Idol Forums, people were a little worry about him pretending to preach his Church doctrines and yeah at that time too much new information was release about, but overall i think he did a great job with his book.

      Just for the record, i’m already did my tour for many sites finding information motivated mostly for some David fansites that clearly are serving to the cause and by LDS links posted on twitter by LDS people that caught my curiosity, then by ”my own research i made my own conclusions” about practices and doctrines …and not they were not necessary all negative and many just left me 😐 , but i know too that exmormon sites experiences are telling some trues too and going to the LDS sacred texts, and old conference texts, i can see i no misinterpreting at all.

      I agree about religious discussions and proselytism behaviors are hard to handle …so i can see your point , but i can see cchalo’s point too.

  9. hey guys, i won’t be coming here next week or so, i just lost my aunt today, i have no idea that she would died that suddenly, she was sick and had problems.

    take care,
    idolfan

  10. Shanny in Australia

    I’m sorry also Idolfan. 😦 ((HUGS))

  11. David always takes the high road. We are bound to find him there. I appreciated your post HG.

  12. tsk i just can’t believe that some of you think that david is pushing his religion to other people? i never heard david talk about being a mormon or lds in any of his interviews..yes, he talks about his faith once in awhile but he never tries to convert people or his fans to mormonism. just imho..

    • It is hard to say what David really means when he says music is his mission. Count me as one who doesn’t think he’ll go on a traditional one, but proselytizing is clearly the goal of an LDS mission, even if it’s not traditional. If he’s not trying to get people to convert to his church, then I don’t think he can say he’s on a mission. Maybe he said that to just to get fellow Mormons to lay off about it.

      Shanny, I do get that I tend to respond a lot when the topic is David’s church, and that can be annoying because I’m not Mormon. I had a Japanese friend who used to joke all the time about how Americanized she was, and one time I kidded her about it. She got quite offended and said, “I can joke about it–you can’t”. Mostly, I try to just comment in a positive and respectful way, but sometimes I just go–what-the-heck?

      • I can’t sleep, so here I am again. Sorry, cchalo, but I have to disagree. Proselytizing is NOT clearly the goal of an LDS mission. There are humanitarian missions, there are temple missions, there are public affairs missions and, yes, there are proselytizing missions. All of these have distinct purposes based on the nature of the mission. The only real common goal that all of these missions have is to promote a respectable image of the LDS Church.

        David is not on a proselytizing mission, that’s why many are wondering if he might choose to do this. If he was already proselytizing, there would be much fewer reasons for him to serve a traditional mission. He also would actually have to talk much more about his faith. The goal of his “mission is music” would have the same common goal of all LDS missions, to promote a respectable image. He does not have to try to “get people to convert” in order to feel like he’s on a mission.

      • Then David is just like any LDS church member–trying to set a good example and hoping people will be attracted to the church. He can call it a mission if he wants, maybe it’s just to get Mormons off his back.

  13. Shanny in Australia

    So I’m there cooking dinner, thinking about the conversation here as you do, lol,…….and I got to thinking….

    Why are we even having this conversation? Why are we posting these websites about temples and ex-mormons etc? What has it got to do with David’s career? Why don’t people just ask LDS fans if they have questions about mormonism?

    The only answers I’m coming up with are…1. David can’t be trusted, he’s subversively converting everyone. 2. The LDS fans can’t be trusted to answer questions.

    From that I’m deducting that the idea is…..everyone needs to be protected from these mormons who are out to brainwash you into joining their cult from which you will never escape. 😆

    • Okay, do Mormons really believe….never mind, you don’t really want me to ask. Instead of being nice to the missionaries that come to my door every few months, I’ll ask them some pointed questions.

      Julia Sweeney had an epiphany after being visited by LDS missionaries. Check out her monologue, “Letting Go of God”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqh53RCkURQ

  14. Shanny in Australia

    Cchalo,

    Just saw your post (3:05) to me now…

    FWIW, personally I don’t mind you talking about the church. Some probably do but I don’t. But if you do, it’s always going to invite opinion that is all. 😆 Although with todays topic I’m kinda like you going…What the heck!? 😆 😉

    BTW, I have to respond down here because the ‘Post comment’ button seems to have disapperared when I try to directly reply to a post.

  15. Shanny in Australia

    Again..I have to reply down here…

    I don’t mind you asking whatever you want to ask CChalo…it’s just this thread is probably not the place to get into deep theological stuff. Its probably better to email about stuff like that.

    And yep…ask the missionaries your questions. There is no rule book saying they can’t answer hard questions. They get them more than you probably realise. Although I say…still be nice (polite) afterall in another life it could’ve been a David knocking on your door. 😆 😉

  16. Cchalo,

    I was not referring to any specific link in my post. There are several websites created by church members who practice outside the mainstream of the church, and several more created by former Mormons who leave the church but can’t seem to leave it alone.

    Investigation of any religion is a personal spiritual quest, best done in the way Shanny described. At the same time, it is difficult for Mormon fans to ignore the out-of-context dissecting of Mormonism done in the name of David Archuleta. When there is insufficient time or space to explain and clarify the whole of it, such comments seem oddly out of place, especially since David does not discuss it himself

    • Just an observation–it seems that when the LDS church is being discussed, Mormons want to be in charge of the conversation–like: only go to official sources, only ask questions of faithful church members, don’t listen to former members. It makes me wonder what they are afraid of. If it’s true and makes sense, then they don’t have to worry what anyone says.

      When my kids were tiny, I searched and found a new church for my family, and along the way I found a couple of negative opinions, but no one was trying to hide anything. I feel like Mormons are trying to hide things or they wouldn’t worry so much about past member’s experiences.

  17. Shanny in Australia

    MHO, Utahmom….ditto. 😆

    …now I’m gonna go and read till hubby gets home and stop spamming the comments. 😉

  18. Good Morning Everyone!
    Trolling david-sites as I get ready for work and came across an intriguing post by Angelica of The Voice. It raises the specter of many past concerns posters here at this site have expressed about David’s current management. Take a read if you can…. Thanks!

    http://thevoicedavidarchuleta.com/

    • Wow. The situation with MIC is much worse than I thought, and I know that man ain’t going away-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay.

    • Wow, now I KNOW my gut instincts about too much family involvement are spot on.
      Poor David, he is being ruled by MIC & Mormonism. He has a lot of maturing to do in order to begin thinking for himself.

  19. What an excellent insightful and thought provoking article on “The Voice”.. Everyone should read it. I have never understood fans that protect and defend mic as David’s manager. That is not doing David any favors in regards to his career. This is one quote from that article on The Voice:— “I remember the interview with Ryan Seacrest. “What happened to THIS David? What happened to the guy who was meeting with writers in Nashville? Now he is once again being managed by his dad, who, no offense to Jeff, makes him look like a weak little boy being ruled by his daddy. If it were another male manager he paid, he would be the boss, but you can’t be the boss of your dad. It just doesn’t work that way. Ask any middle-aged man. “.

    • Does anyone honestly believe that the peeps in the music.entertainment industry want to work with David with mic as his manager? I don’t think they do which is not fair to such a great talent like David.

  20. Thank you Joymus for the link. I like The Voice, it’s a very good fansite with great articles. I read them but don’t post, I only comment here lol

    I agree with you Marie. The fans shouldn’t be afraid to say what they think regarding David’s career. I think that the feedback is important, positive or negative, but things should be allowed to be said. We are fans, not sheep lol.
    I’m not saying that the fans are the ones who know it better and I don’t prone an intrusion into David’s career and decisions, that’s not our role as fans. But sharing honestly what we think about his career and his decisions is important, if just for the feedback. His team should be aware of it.

  21. Joymus, thanks so much for the link to that Voice article. It’s been very tiresome reading the constant praise of Jeff. I really hope some of those who believe he can do no wrong get a chance to read that.
    Really interesting discussion over the weekend. I’ve appreciated all of the different viewpoints regarding David’s religion.
    I guess I’m still one of the lone few who believes David will be leaving us soon. VJ, perhaps we could form a club? lol

  22. I just want to apologize if I came off as “curt” this weekend. Ngl, I have some huge issues re: what David’s been taught by the church, & there are strong emotions involved. But…I’ve also had a migraine all weekend, & should know better than to post when I’m not feeling well. Sorry.

  23. Maybe call it the “Lonely Hearts Club?”

    I like it! 🙂

    Sorry, it wouldn’t let me post right under your comment for some reason.

  24. Shanny in Australia

    I guess no one will see this…but FWIW…it’s the misinformation and slander we get tired of Cchalo. We’re not ‘afraid’. What’s there to be afraid of? …that a person I have never met will decide they don’t want to join the LDS church? Each to his own on that one I say.

    I have been denied access to certain online ‘Christian forums’ because I am LDS. I just finished reading a secular book where out of the blue Mormons were described like Amish people. My husband was once denied a job because he had served a mission and when it came down to two ‘great’ people for the job and they couldn’t
    decide..I guess they didn’t want the ‘religious’ one. I could go on. And that is just personal stuff that I have seen and experienced. It doesn’t say anything for every other LDS person out there nor the way we have historically been treated as a church in general. I’m not going to play the sympathy card or anything but past experiences just makes a person rather ‘over it’ ya know.

  25. Shanny in Australia

    And just for the record….I wasn’t raised in the LDS church. It was a deep and poignant choice I made to join. And 18 years later, it is still the best and most beautiful, fulfilling decision I ever made.

  26. Shanny in Australia

    Cchalo, to be honest, you have really surprised me in this thread. In previous conversations about the lds church I haven’t agreed with everything you said or felt that things were reported accurately but I diddn’t feel any animosity from you. Now i’m feeling plenty. That’s sad but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised since you said yourself you have been ‘addicted’ to reading ex-mormon sites. It seems that what was once a civil and respectful conversation about mormonism has slipped into something less as a result. 😦 Perhaps that just goes to show again, why lds people wish you would talk to us directly rather than go to disenfranchised websites. Sad.

  27. No, “animosity” isn’t a true characterization, my feeling would be more “exasperation”–as in why the article I linked, based on years of experience, would constantly be called “misinformation”, when it’s not. If I wanted to post misinformation about the LDS church, it’s out there–like The Godmakers–which is sensationalistic and distorted. There’s a difference between the two.

    Ex-mormons say that there’s a stereotype that they only leave the church for two reasons–being offended, or wanting to “sin”. Possibly that ties into the dismissing of their information as “anti-mormon”, which apparently means untrue.

    You and I both left our heritage for a different church, and I don’t know about you, but I know that I don’t make up stuff about my old church. I can be trusted to say why it wasn’t a good fit for our family, and yet share the good it did too. If someone only spoke to current members, they wouldn’t get the complete picture. Same for ex-mormons.

    You can’t frankly talk to current LDS members who are friends anyway. My brother wanted to convert to the Mormon church with his family a number of years ago. His business partner is LDS, and my brother liked the family values and similarity to the clean-living upbringing we had. But once he started the learning process–yikes–he was shocked at the beliefs. Because he loved and respected his friend and didn’t want to insult him, he would never approach him about it.

    • P.S. I know my old church didn’t make sense to most outsiders either. Now that I’ve left, I can have a candid conversation about it, without being offended.

  28. Shanny in Australia

    CChalo…

    In response to what your exmormon friends are saying….I don’t think we characterize exmormon’s like that at all. I know plenty of people who have fallen away from the church – most due to lack of diligence but some to differences in doctrine, ranging from mild to large. My BIL for one…. a returned missionary, married in the

    temple, announced to the family a couple of years ago that he no longer wants to associate with the church, due to stuff he had read on the internet. Nothing to do with being offended or wanting to sin. But he also doesn’t go to exmormon websites. You’ve got to wonder about those people’s motives, just a bit, don’t you?

    As for your Brother’s experience….ok, he found some doctrines that surprised him…fair enough…doctrinal differences are a good reason to not join a church, lol. I can also understand your brothers desire to not offend his friend, but chatting on the internet is anonymous and won’t be risking any friendships.

    FWIW, I try to be a realist. I try not to whitewash things. I feel like I have tried to respond honestly to your questions and concerns and I would hope you could see that in my comments. At the same time, I have said several times before….everyone brings their own thoughts, feelings and experiences to a conversation so some sort of bias is to be expected by anyone.

    Also, just for the record, I sense from your comments that you feel I am trying to stop you from speaking about the church. I’m not at all. I have said before that I don’t mind you talking about the church. But I do think you have thrown a few significant things out there in this thread and I feel that we don’t have the ability to give reasonable responses because this is not a blogsite for mormon doctrine discussions.

    I have said twice to you before….lets chat in the email if you want to discuss stuff…again…I make that offer because I just feel like it’s not good decorum having this conversation here.

    • The ex-mormons I know IRL probably don’t go to ex websites, but I doubt they go to David Archuleta fan sites either. Different strokes for different folks. 😉

    • Seriously, though, the amount of grief I got just for posting a link on a website, gives me an insight into why a disaffected Mormon, especially one in Utah, might need the support of a post-mormon site. That’s why their subtitle is “You’re not alone”.

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