David and the Cool Factor

The discussion from the previous thread brought some colorful responses (and new posters – welcome everyone!), but one issue that was raised seemed to be a major one: David’s “cool factor.”

But before I muse on this, I wanted to take a quick poll and see just how “cool” David is among his fans (that is, how quick are we to broadcast our love for him to others?).

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Posted on June 18, 2011, in polls. Bookmark the permalink. 136 Comments.

  1. Shanny in Australia

    Haha, fun poll.

    I checked the 2nd option. Those who know…REALLY know. lol Well…they know as well as a non-Archie can know. They think I am easily David’s biggest fan and they think I am too old (early 30’s) to be so fanatical about an artist. They don’t seem to believe me when I tell them there are many fanatical Archies and quite a few of them are twice my age. lol And of course, they know that I admire David but they don’t even begin to understand how deeply.

    And I proudly drive around with two well positioned David bumper stickers on my car. Everytime I have been asked about them or something remotely related to David comes up, I try to talk about him. But mostly the topic never gets a chance to be raised. So that’s why most people don’t really know.

    If I am honest…yes, I do feel a little awkward talking about him….but I don’t care, he is worth it. And my awkwardness arises not out of David not being cool, hip, edgy enough – I don’t give two hoots about that and never have – my awkward feelings arise out of my worry that people are going to think I’m too old to be so into someone so young. And I guess I also feel like I have about 3 seconds to explain what is so great about David, well enough that they will ‘get him’ too.

    My greatest frustration comes from how people will listen to David and/or read his book, they admit that he is really talented and a nice guy and then they move onto the next thing, while I am left in disbelief and disappointment thinking and feeling…. ‘You don’t get it, do you?! How can you not get it?!’ It baffles me and frustrates me no end.

    • Shanny – how did you learn of David again?

      • I was looking for music on youtube and stumbled upon him. Loved what I heard, saw he had been on idol, watched his performances of idol trying to figure out how far he got on the show after which I found myself googling ‘David Archuleta’ and have never been the same again. 😉 Thanks for asking.

  2. HG you’re really on a roll here with these last 2 posts – I hardly ever feel the need to add to what your brilliant posters say but I am again moved to comment today. I checked the second option not because I would be shy about supporting David but because I find that not many people I know really care that much about music or at least they don’t talk about it. I also am very hesitant to recommend music to others because musical tastes are so varied. Some people are just not open to suggestions that they listen to a new artist – it’s just a personal decision whether to be open to new music or not. I have to say that whenever David’s name has come up amongst friends and associates that the tone of the conversation is positive as in what a great voice, he’s so good looking and seems to be a nice person or Crush was a great song. My impression is that this is an artist that people will follow “when he becomes an adult”. I think David still has a great deal of positive vibe left from Idol. In my mind there was always a disconnect between the maturity and artistry in David’s voice and his youthful looks and demeanor. Many could see the talent but did not think of his future potential. I would also add that for those who wring their hands about David not having any time on US radio stations that there are many artists who are never or infrequently heard on US radio that still have a successful career.

  3. Shanny and Swiss Mountaineer (please keep on posting!) – I really enjoy the depth and quality of your posts. Just saying 🙂

  4. I just have to add this cute story here. During the last week of school, I was in the midst of grading a poetry project in which the students had to create a portfolio of 20 original poems after being taught the the formats of each. A found/parallel poem is one where an excerpt of text from a novel or song lyric is used and the poet creates an original response.
    As I got to this particular student’s found/parallel poem I gasped loudly in surprise :0 She had chosen the first two verses of Crush 🙂
    Of course I immediately started with the first tentative question upon finding a kindred archie – Do you like David Archuleta? At her affirmative answer, it was as if floodgates had been opened. I admitted that as old as I was – haha, that i was a HUGE DA fan. I went on about the various fansites that were in in place to document his career, then showed the bookmarks of my 2 favorite sites on my work-laptop – SD and FOD.
    I also asked her as a young person with so many musical choices why she loved DA, and she replied that she really loved the way his voice sounds. With respect to our recent discussions, she did not address his cool factor or religion. I personally don’t think she knew or cared, but I mentioned to her that I loved DA not only for his music but the fine example he sets for other young people.

    • raelovingangels

      Your encounter demonstrates how the love of David brings people of all ages and backgrounds together. I have seen some posts wondering if David’s younger fans will move on with him as he moves toward more mature sounds. I have NO fears there. i feel there are many young fans- who appreciate talent- just like the adult fans. Anyone who has stayed with David for 3 years, IMO, is a fan for life. Young or old, regardless of background. There are simply some people that captivate your senses.- David is one of those. However, referring to your post Shanny- there are others, that never will be captivated by him. I have had a similar experience. I give out his CD’s to friends and family. Some are blown away…. Some are- he sings nice and move on… I voted for number 2. I don’t hide that I am a fan by any means. On the other hand- I don’t walk around handing out flyers either to random people on the street. ( but I love it when others do).

  5. I picked the second option. Most of my friends would think David was too young or think of him as a teen idol. They would not want to try to listen to his music but then again I don’t ever recommend music to them. My sons in their 20″s do not think David is cool or would ever listen to him but some of their friends that are girls do. My 80 year old mother loves him as much as I do but worries about his career. I am glad David left Jive as he needed to work on his image as a serious musician and not be pushed as a teen idol. The key is he needs to surround himself with good advisers that are hip to the music scene. He needs good management/PR team to help with this transition. How can he do it on his own or with just his family/friends? It is interesting that everyone I know loved Crush but his other songs not so much.

  6. Out and proud David fan here! 🙂 Have never hidden or been ashamed or shy to say I was a fan. With someone as gifted vocally as he, it makes it easy for me to discuss him and play his music in my home, at gatherings, at work, and go see him live in concert. My friends and fam know I’m a music fiend, so my support of him is just par for the course, LOL. I understand the difficulties some fans have encountered w/ family and friends regarding their support and being a fan of such a young singer. It has always made me a little sad to read the feelings of isolation and the suppressing of their desire to share their excitement and interest in David with those closest to them. I have never really thought about the so called cool factor when discussing him w/my friends or family – in my head, if I like you, I like you, and if the other person isn’t receptive to a fave, then whatever – people’s likes and dislikes are personal and subjective, and I feel no one has the right to try to dictate/control anyone’s taste, or put them down for what they like and find enjoyment in. In the larger music world, he may never measure up in the ‘cool’ dept using their criteria, and I say So What? (tm P!nk) In my alternate universe, you should like and love what and who you like – whether they are deemed ‘in fashion’ or ‘cool’ or not… e.g… I still considered myself a fan of MJ during his uncool cycle, even though many in the industry and the media and the public turned their backs on him, and judged him mercilessly up to his death. Some of that may have been deserved, some not, I don’t know – all I know is what is deemed ‘cool’ is fluid, and filled w/a lot of arbitrary BS ( like dying – what is uncool in life suddenly becomes tres cool in death, lol… such hypocrisy, but that’s how this society rolls, heh)

    David is going to be himself, regardless whether the industry, the casual or invested fan think it’s cool, or ‘cool enough’. How that will translate out in the mainstream during this next phase in his career – unknown. Imo, w/ a forward thinking and creative marketing team, the ‘coolness’ factor or perceived lack of it could be minimized, and used to his benefit.

  7. I chose # 1. Everyone who knows me knows how crazy I am about David. I talk about him every chance I get – even to strangers – and I’m kind of known as “the one-man Archuleta advertisement”. lol. I’ve never cared what’s “cool” or “in”. In fact, cool people are usually a turn-off for me. I want to get to know a real person, not an image.

    And I’d like to comment on something GG mentioned in the previous thread: “Didn’t we recently have a poster state during a speculation party that ‘Christian’ (rollseyes) radio may not even be disposed, or would not be disposed to playing David’s music IF he recorded in that genre, because the PTB there did not consider Mormons ‘CHRISTIAN’?”

    I’m the one who said that, GG. But it has nothing to do with being prejudiced against Mormons or David or anyone else. One of the central tenets of Christianity is that Christ is deity (God in the flesh) & the Messiah, & that ppl can have a personal relationship with HIm. Most Christian stations exist as an outreach, meeting the needs of those who are hurting, and pointing ppl to the Christ that they know. The music they play is meant to serve that purpose. So if David’s music can do that…then maybe it could be considered. Who knows?

    On the flip side, I don’t see why the secular music world would care what David believes at all. There is such a hodge-podge of viewpoints there, and artists who come from every lifestyle and walk of life imaginable, it seems. It seems “oxymoronic” to me that the same culture that accepts bizarreness and says “anything goes” would look at David and say, “Well, anything but you….” ….Unless they can’t handle his conservatism. But surely there are other Mormons and conservative folks in the business, aren’t there? How do they make it? Maybe David could visit with them….

  8. I’m somewhere between the 1st and 2nd but I chose the 1st because I have NO problem telling someone I’m a huge fan of David. However, I’m a reserved person by nature so it would be waaaay out of character for me to “blast it from the rooftops”, lol.

    David may have lost some fans but the young ones that are still here are VERY supportive of him. Sometimes I visit ArchieRX, Somethin Bout Archie, etc. and I’m always so impressed with their commitment, appreciation for diverse perspectives, sense of humor and their creativity in promoting David.

    Joymus, your story is all kinds of win! A+ for that student. 🙂

    • DRat – I could give her nothing less 🙂 But seriously, she turned in a superlative assignment so the A+ was well deserved!

  9. Like Desertrat, I am come in somewhere between 1 and 2. I talk about David often to those I love and trust the most, and have mentioned him to others when the topic fits into the conversation somehow. I’ve given his music as a gift, also, to both friends and strangers. (Sent his Christmas album to 5 nursing home administrators/activity directors at Christmas. Got 5 thank you letters back, many with assurances that the residents and families were loving the music. I think that will be a holiday tradition and I suppose I’d better keep track of who has gotten one!)

  10. Hi VJ! I do find there to be a special kind of prejudice and intolerance of Mormons (and Jehovah’s Witnesses, among others) in certain segments of the so called ‘Christian’ community. I’ve seen and heard it firsthand, with my own eyes and ears – in print, in casual conversation, and even preached from the pulpit of certain mainline denominational churches, so it is out there. It doesn’t make LDS special being singled out for this – there can be a lot of perceived and very real intolerant mindsets and attitudes coming from people espousing ‘Christian’ beliefs, but that is another conversation for another time, lol…

    I can believe his being LDS, in certain quarters, could be a liability. There are documented studies out there that reveal hidden biases and assumptions participants in certain studies made regarding the character/qualifications//likeability of people based off of their first and last names, a head shot of them, their religious affiliation, and so forth… all I’m saying is it’s out there… Another example on the career side of the house involves the Cumulus block of radio stations… they control a large group/block of radio stations across the country… the owners and corporate culture openly espouses a fundamental ‘Christian’ mindset… One wonders /hopes the PTB at that station, and stations elsewhere who may have the same beliefs, but aren’t as open in espousing them, could/would be objective enough to treat him as just another artist… just grist for the thought mill. In the larger music industry, the LDS church was catching extreme flack for their support of the Prop bill in Cali in support of gay marriage… Let’s be real here. There is a very large and vocal and Influential segment of the music and entertainment industry, and its fans, who are gay, and took great offense at the LDS stance… I wondered then if there would be any negative effect on David, or other LDS identified folks in the industry, and it’s just hard to say, or quantify. Although in the long run, I believe that money covers a multitude of sins in this business, so I’m sure in my cynical mind that if David or anyone else makes enough of it to keep TPTB happy, he could be yellow with purple polka dots sporting devil horns if he wanted, lol (see GaGa, Lady) 🙂

    • Well, my workplace (the national headquarters of a fundamental denomination) was recently picketed by an LGBT group because we support Prop 8 as well. So if little ol’ me in Podunkville was the recipient of some of that flack, I can definitely imagine it happening on a bigger scale in the entertainment industry….

      *sigh*. ‘K, David. If money’s what it takes, then it’s time make some serious dough. And if I win the lottery, I’m giving it all to you. Except I don’t play the lottery, so that might be kind of hard. lol….hm. I need a Plan B.

    • I’m very curious to know what is your definition of intolerance GG and ”fundamental Christians”, in a world with all kind of ‘Believes’ how you can be sure only ‘Christians’ are the ones ”preached from the pulpit” about some subjects?

      I find very normal the rules to be played in a Christian radio ( i assume the message of the songs is the first) the same i find normal the Deseret books don’t sell Christian books that go against their believes….so each one has their rights ? and i seriously doubt they play Lady Gaga in a CR lol .
      So the all ‘David is victim of the Christians bigots in the business’ is so WRONG!!, i wonder how many times Donny Osmond play David on his radio?, Utah support to his career is very average to me, no that special in my opinion…so what is the point? i heard ‘The Killers’ songs too many times on radio and someone here just pointed that his lead singer is Mormon, DWTS mormons are very loved for the public , One of the winners in the JUNO Awards in Canada is an alternative clean cut Mormon girls , Donny and Mary are successful people in my eyes, very popular worldwide, for sure they struggled in the past, but is normal in the life of an artist to have high s and lows. So i’m sorry but i don’t see victims here, i just see a very lucky young man doing very well in a very difficult business where nobody is safe and where everyone is in risk to be ‘The Big Star’ and fall to be ‘ part of the past’ in just one year….that is the reality of this business right now.

      BTW if you pay attention to the top 40 the play all kind of artist, David moment to be there is not now, for many factors, first one money to do promo and conscious that they need to invests on that, but hes not alone in that ones and like is said yesterday at least he still active in a market and crush still be played…..and i’m sorry but the lack of a little more ambitious
      management team still one of his BIG problems…..he’s late to go for the Latino and European market, i have the impression that will be better fit to
      consolidate his career, before to restart in US.

    • GG You are so right. The entertainment/music industry is very liberal and very pro gay. They did take offense to the LDS stance in CA a few years ago. It sure may have had an adverse effect on David then but hopefully things have changed. I believe they do have gay marriage in CA now. There is also a reason Adam Lambert was given so much promo and push coming off AI. He had the backing of the entire industry. Whether you agree or disagree that is just the way the industry is and you can’t change it. If David did make a huge amount of money for them they wouldn’t care.

      • Hi Marie – this is a discussion I have been dying to have w/ HG and others here… At the right time, under the right circumstances, lolol… I’ll wait to suss out w/you lively lovely fearless free thinking folk some things related to this that have rumbled around the cabeza for a few years… I’m giving the brain a rest for the rest of the day, lol…

  11. pps…. that statement should read, ”flack for their support in Cali to defeat the bill proposed in support of gay marriage’…

    sometimes the words just don’t flow…

  12. I voted for the first option. My situation is a little different because AI is not aired here and I think only a few persons know who he is. But I play his music a lot and when I’m asked who is my favorite singer, I’m proud to say David Archuleta. I never hide it lol

    David probably doesn’t fit the criterias of what is judged to be a cool person in our actual society. But his attitude as the anti-cool guy is what makes him really cool in my opinion. He’s cool because he’s not a follower and he’d rather do what he thinks is good for him than what he may be pressured to do by others. He’s cool because of his uniqueness, he’s not afraid to be different. As much as we think that sometimes David is a bit predictable, he’s in my view more like an anti-conformist or a rebel which is way cool in my eyes. There are too much copies of the same artist in the music biz and for any trend, other persons are in need of the anti-trend. That’s why I always wondered why David’s real personality was never promoted by his team instead of trying to make him fit the already existant teen idol image. He has a lot of qualities that would appeal to those who don’t care about what is supposed to be cool or to those who look for something different from what is proposed now. He could easily be the “new cool” guy but he needs to be seen and heard so those who only have the AI or Jive fabricated image of him can know who is the genuinely talented David.

    • raelovingangels

      I agree with you 110%. I have never been pleased with how they were trying to market/present David. That is one reason I think ( among others) his twitter followers keep growing. Once you see how funny/quirky he is, naturally, how genuine and down to earth he is, coupled with how talented he is, you are hooked!

  13. I just read on Archuleta Avenue Malaysia that the fans are planning a gathering at Berjaya Times Square on Sunday. It sounds like fun; I hope they tweet some pics.

    Off topic … Lance Bass of Nsync is creating a reality tv show where boy band members will be forming boy bands. Is it uncool to be genuinely exited about this? 🙂

    “I got a member from Backstreet Boys, A.J. McLean. A member from *NSYNC, Joey Fatone. A member from New Kids on the Block, Joe McIntyre. And a member from New Edition, Bobby Brown. They’re all going to form a boy band, …”
    http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/06/lance_bass_is_creating_a_boy_b.html

    • Speaking of (former) boy bands, this new song from Take That is really good (and the video features some of Britain’s best comedians. I believe they are making fun of the band’s earlier videos).

      • That is a good video. Very clever. Wasn’t Robbie Williams in that band?

      • Wow, I had no idea Robbie Williams started out in a boy band. This video is all kinds of funny. I thought I recognized a scene from a New Edition video (raining &guys walking down the street, “Can You Stand the Rain”).

  14. David is back in Nashville Yea!!!

    I checked first box. I fly off to concerts much to the dismay of my family @ times. I’m an Older fan and think some don’t understand because David is young. Love David’s music, character etc etc and have come to meet many fans in Reno,@Motab in Utah, and back here in Moline where I treated family ages 10 to 70 to a concert. (Thank God

  15. The lead singer/guitarist and also his brother in the band Archie Fire were also raised Mormon, but I do no know if they are any longer in the church. There’s quite a few artists in the entertainment industry who were raised Mormon. Some remain in the church and others have left. A few came out of the closet and left the church.

  16. I think another point to make is that many of the idols that came from AI are not seen as “cool” by many. It’s not just David. It is kind of like good news and bad news for the idols. The good news is that they get a fan base, a good start from the exposure, and some money from AI. The bad news is that there seems to be a stigma attached to being on idol that is not always good. Are any of the idols seen as “cool” anymore especially by younger fans ? I saw an article that said that JLo and Tyler really won AI this year due to the boost in their careers not Scotty and Lauren. lol I agree.

  17. Woah there 🙂 You IMO are drawing a lot of incorrect assumptions here, and I believe much of what I said went over your head, or got lost in the translation… there is irony and touches of sarcasm embedded in the comment along with what I perceive to be a truth, my truth, and opinion backed up by some referenceable data ( you and anyone else inclined can do deeper research on the Christian, intolerance, Mormon, bigotry questions at your own leisure – Goggle and the Internet provide bottomless resources to suss a lot of info out) and examples in real time, from real life, first hand, no second hand stories or antecdotes needed… and SRSLY? Did you really take the reference to Gaga that seriously? Lady Gaga we know will never see the light of play or day on Christian radio, but that wasn’t the issue… Ok….. Moving along 🙂 I think that you are missing the irony and touches of sarcasm in my words when I point out the disconnect in what some ‘religious’ people and orgs say, what they do, when all basically use the same reference point – the Bible in most cases… There are people of all religious stripes that have no truck with anyone who doesn’t ascribe heel to toe to their beliefs – Christian, Muslim, Mormon, insert whatever religion you want – , but for the sake of this particular discussion and how it may relate in a speculative manner to David, it has been narrowed down to Christian and Mormon… both have beliefs, attitudes and worldviews held by people that I’m sure can be and are sometimes perceived as intolerant. And in America, intolerance, bias, assumptions and stereotypes sometimes can rear its ugly head in many areas and actions and speech that is overt, and covert. You don’t have to go around actively seeking it out either – if you are plugged in to what goes on the the world around you – the pop culture world, the political world, the international world, the discerning eye and ear will pick it up. As stated, I’m not positing my position as the root cause of whatever is ailing David’s career – it’s grist for the ever expanding mill of things we speculate on – in real time, using real talk w/heaping doses of fact, speculation, irony, humor, and the occasional snarky/sarcastic comment thrown in.

  18. That last post is in response to your post Tibitibi – I’m a little slow on the uptake in some areas today 🙂

  19. Freo. did you mean Arcade Fire? I know Ar usually goes with Archie!! ha!

    So excited that David is back in Nashville. Just feel the creative juices flowing and balance in David’s life.

    • Whoops, I meant Arcade Fire! 🙂

      I wanted to add that the two brothers in the band are the grandsons of a very famous Mormon guitarist, but his name escapes me.

      • Alvino Rey. I googled it. lol Their grandmother is one of the King Sisters. I remember them. Arcade Fire is indie with Merge Records. They are so successful. Good for them.

  20. what a fun poll! had to choose the middle one as most who know me know I love David… but can not shout it from the roof tops just yet? I do think once he graduates from his MKOP era to something a little more adult will be able to not get all the Justin Bieber references then. interested in what you have in store for the ‘cool factor’ post.. as I do think especially if he wants to go Indie he needs to get a tad more edgy? and by that I mean write or sing about what mainstream folks his age both guys and gals want to hear about? thanks!

  21. why david back in nashville? what about utah? he barely see his family. i guess he is going do more work next week, more meeting and etc. i think he def have a new record label, let hope right souldavid?

    • He saw his family in Nashville recently. I think he always finds time for his family and he takes every opportunity he gets to spend time with them.
      He said in an interview posted here yesterday that he doesn’t have a label.

  22. I’m hoping that the reason he has been in Nashville so much is that he is in talks with a label and new management. He is up to something there, but he hasn’t told us anything except that he’s been meeting with song writers that he might collaborate with in the future.

  23. “I can believe his being LDS, in certain quarters, could be a liability.”

    Absolutely, GG! Your observations are right on the money. Even though David subscribes to many of the same values held by the evangelical Christian segment, he won’t find support among very many because of their anti-Mormon bias. Believe me, my family and I have been targeted many times by “Christian” “neighbors”. Religious bigotry is alive and well in America, so what could be a big audience for David’s “uncoolness” is in general, inaccessible to him.

    And I agree, grammyj, David is definitely up to something in Nashville…

  24. PS, I want VJ to know that I’m speaking in very general terms…cuz you rock!

  25. I also fall somewhere between the 1st and 2nd choices. I don’t necessarily blast or broadcast that I’m David’s fan, but I don’t hide it either. When an occasion arises to talk about (promote) him, I do. I give his cds to my students as Christmas gifts or as incentives to my after-schoolers, I have also given them to some in my family, co-workers, and fellow church goers. Most of them know I will travel far and wide to attend his concerts. One thing that makes me hopeful about David, is the times I have been able to mention him in everyday random conversations (ie, at a store, talking to a telephone sales rep, young guys trying to sale Hoover vacuums to pay for college, etc.), most people know who he is. The problem is that most didn’t know he had new music out. 😦

  26. I think the issue with David and the LDS church is it could be a problem if he becomes strongly identified as a representative of that religion, and thus identified as a symbol of intolerance. As gay marriage becomes legal in more and more states and countries and becomes more and more mainstream, as is happening, perhaps people will gradually forget the church’s leadership in that battle and won’t see individual Mormons as the “bad guys”.

    For years, people saw Mormons as racists because of that church’s ban on black people in the priesthood. When the “revelation” came in 1978, many Mormons were so relieved to not be seen as racist, (though there were some old-timers who still clung to that “curse of Cain” belief). Now it’s largely forgotten, even among Mormons, and no one especially thinks of them as racist.

    I think David is wise to downplay his church involvement–without denying it–because it is such a hot button issue. I think Utah folks and others who like to brag of his involvement do him no favors. Dean Kaelin was interviewed a while back and proudly stated that David faithfully goes to the temple and baptizes dead people into his church every week. He seems clueless that to us non-LDS people that’s weird at best and offensive to many.

    • P.S. The “revelation” reversed the ban on blacks. (A temple was being built in Brazil, and since almost the whole population had some black blood, almost no one could have gone to the temple).

      • Well said, very thoughtfully and eloquently said cchalo. You have done your homework, and I applaud your marshalling of the facts and their respectful presentation. There are a lot of squishy grey areas many fans would like to explore /discuss in a respectful, open and critical (not meaning negative) manner w/o the rest of the fandom thinking we are being disloyal or ‘bad fans’, and I believe we are on the forum to do just that…

      • You got your story wrong. It had nothing to do with a temple being built in Brazil. Also, it’s not that the Mormon church makes a profit off of people going to the Temple. It’s free!

      • Well there were many problems for the church stemming from the ban including a potential boycott of BYU sports by black athletes, among others. But I never said it had anything to do with making a profit off the temple.

    • I can understand how and why Kaelin made his remarks. This past week, almost to the same day, the state of New York legalized same-sex marriage while my hodunk local city council could not pass local legislation that would make it illegal for employers, realtors, and landlords to openly disciminate against GLBT people. States/cities/countries are all over the map on this issue, and every place is its own environment. At my local city council meeting, for nearly six hours people shared stories of discrimination before the council with tears running down their faces. After hours of testimony, the mayor pulled out a typed statement that he had prepared beforehand. He and several other council members heard nothing because they are focused on forwarding their political careers in my conservative part of the state.

      Sorry to go off on this tangent, but what I am trying to say is that each place is a product of its own environment. There is another religion in my city that monopolizes local politics and social life.

    • It seems wierd because you know none of the facts.

    • The Mormon church isn’t the only church on this planet that believes in the bibical version of marriage. Several Christian churches are openly against the legalization of gay marriage. Not so religious people didn’t like the idea that a gay marriage is considered normal behavior and could be taught in the schools (sex ed.)

      • Suzy, I agree. At my local city council meeting, some folks were quoting the bible to back up their assertions. This is not surprising given the prevalence of the particular religious affiliation in the city.

      • Suzy-Q, this is true but I don’t think anyone is saying that the LDS is the only church that is against gay marriages. I think the discussion is that some people may hold this against David.

    • cchalo You raised some valid points. I do find it interesting to have things clarified about the Mormon religion and LDS. I think for those of us that are non-LDS it is very informative. It seems like the Mormon religion has been in the news lately because of the popularity of the hit broad way musical “The Book of Mormon.” I was not clear if the LDS church was all right with the musical or was just ignoring it. Not that it really matters. I certainly agree that there are many christian churches that are opposed to gay marriage. Interesting conversation here.

      • The song from Book of Mormon play that they showed on the Tony awards show was very compelling and funny. It made me want to see the play, though I’m not a fan of profanity.

        I believe the theme of the play, like the South Park episode “All About Mormons” , is that no matter how odd and made-up your beliefs are, they can make you a better person, and in the case of the play, can make for a better society.

      • cchalo: That is what I thought about the musical. That it really was about the strength of belief. I saw this quote in an article: Although the Broadway musical, “The Book of Mormon,” is edgy and controversial, its creators, Matt Stone and Trey Parker, insisted that Mormons should not be offended by its content. “They’re so happy-go-lucky, kind of optimistic people, and they kind of have that cheesy factor,” Parker said. “It’s like Mormons, Disney, Rogers and Hammerstein, it all kind of makes sense…Mormons are just happy people so you’re going to get a happy musical out of it.” Maybe the musical might be a positive thing.

  27. well i hope david does get a new label pretty soon. i read that his family that came to visited him was from flordia not in utah?. i think david might go to the BSBNKOTB concert with opening act jordin sparks in nashville on june 21. in my opinion, i think def he will be there, peace out souldavid.

    • David also has a lot of relatives and friends in the Atlanta area.

    • So while WE’RE all going off on hot button topics, idolfan is here helping us get our priorities straight. lol…Yes, I hope David gets a new label pretty soon, too. I’m a little bit bummed knowing he doesn’t have one yet.

  28. I checked number one. Because I have given several of my friends David’s albums and his book most people know I am a fan. They all said they especially like the Christmas album. If they ask me if I am a fan, I tell them that I am a mega fan and tell them how I follow his career on a daily basis. My son-in-law teased me a lot but now he compares his obsession with his fish club with my ODD. A few people ask me how David is doing and I give them the latest scoop. I have David’s pictures in my kitchen and in my home office. My friends know that I have gone to some concerts, have met him twice and that I flew all the way to Utah for MoTab just to see David. Some were even surprised that I didn’t go to the MB concert. I had to explain why I couldn’t. I helped Karin Carlson make three of her promo videos for David’s music. The first one we walked around Olympic Park in Atlanta giving out the Christmas CD and talking to strangers about David. I surprised myself when I went up to people of all ages and asked them to be in our video. Also, I carried a large homemade poster up and down Peachtree Street telling people to honk if they liked David Archuleta. We got a lot of honkers by the way. I have just had a lot of fun with my ODD and my friends and family have come to respect my “hobby” as they call it. I am OK with that. I really don’t expect them to understand. How could they? I am not sure I understand it either. I just know that I love that young man to pieces.

  29. Thank you, lol. But you probably wouldn’t think I rocked if I wasn’t choosing my words so carefully…:).

    • OK….that was supposed to be a reply to Utahmom. How did I end up at the bottom of the page? lol.

  30. If any of you want to know the facts about the Mormon church go to LDS.org and all of your concerns, questions and facts are all there. Then if you don’t like us at least you’ll have your facts straight.

    David doesn’t downplay his religion. His entire book talked about his faith in God and he bore his testimony in the last four chapters. He keeps his religion and his personal life separate from his work. Just like everyone else in the business.

    It’s fine with me when there are discussions about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. it gives me a chance to clear up a few things to the mis-informed.

    • Suzy, One thing I have appreciated about the fan community is the opportunity to learn more about the Mormon religion. I have a question: in the Asian countries where David is going, is it legal to practice the religion (to have meetings/temples) and are missionaries sent to those countries? Thanks!

      • raelovingangels

        In Vietnam LDS would not be legal, as only certain religions are approved by the govt.. IDK about the other countries.

    • You need to make the difference Faith in God is different to follow the rules and doctrines of a religion, in this case i agree he did a good job with his book, talking about the part of HIS beliefs most people can relate and i enjoyed that part.

      And about the link you put here, well i followed already, i did my research from the Church sources, i read, talk , see interviews with some of the Church leaders,I have to, since at some point this fanbase was very focus on that, i was hoping i was misinterpreting some very polemics points of their doctrine , but not , the all point CCHALO pointed is true (don’t know about the Brasil thing though) but the part of the doctrine is right , but then at the end of the day is OK , each one has the option to decided what to believe and we are here to enjoy music that’s all , after all David has 20 not 2 , nobody is forcing him to believe what he want to believe and nobody going to stop him to follow his spiritual ambitions , happen that not everybody think is right some of this doctrinal points?

  31. David baptizes dead people?!

    Woah… I must have missed that memo… and thankfully so! There is such a thing as TMI!

    Anyone in the LDS faith care to elaborate on how the dead can be baptized before I go into the “weird at best” zone? Thanks much! 🙂

    • Delurking.

      David does not baptize dead people. He serves as a proxy for ordinances that are done in the temple. A more thorough explanation here:

      http://lds.org/church/temples/why-we-build-temples/what-happens-in-temples?lang=eng

      • Thanks, Archugeezer (and thank you for de-lurking!). That certainly clears things up from where my imagination might have taken me.

        If this was something Dean Kaelin “proudly” talked about in interviews (because you know David wouldn’t), without giving non-LDS folks much context, I think that’s only indicative of how naive some people were who surrounded David in the early days.

    • HG, from what I learned when I looked into this practice, you might not want to go there…… 😦

      • Well, from what the official LDS link describes, it doesn’t sound all that “bizarre” a practice, so, like Freo said, I do appreciate LDS fans who can clear things up for the rest of us!

      • They believe you have to have had this done in order to go to heaven, and so the main purpose of the temples is to accomplish this for all of humanity.

      • Oops, meant to post this directly below my comment, not above it.

    • I think that though David has undoubtedly brought a lot of attention to his faith, it’s not going to be all positive. There are many really, really unusual aspects to that church’s doctrine and history. LDS.org presents one side of it, and people who used to be Mormon present another side.

      Jewish and Catholic organizations have had issues with LDS individuals who proxy baptize their dead members, including popes and holocaust victims. I believe the Mormon church considers it a “gift” that is offered to the dead person–they just have to accept it. David, or another LDS person would be dunked in a font in behalf of the dead person. This is why Mormons are so into geneaology.

      OK, you’re right, TMI.

      • In a recent interview, David said that he has been getting into genealogy lately. The average reader might think that that just indicates an interest in family history, but someone more familiar with his faith would know why he has that interest.

      • I think there are many really, really unusual aspects to other church’s doctrine and history. It all depends on your perspective.

      • I have a theory that because David is not going to do a mission, he perhaps is more zealous about proxy baptizing dead people as a service to his church, which technically, isn’t as intrusive as going door to door.

      • Yes it is not always positive when an artist is connected to their faith. I think Tom Cruise and John Travalto have taken a lot of flake for being scientologists but they are so successful and have so much money that they can over come it. I still do not understand scientology. lol

  32. idolfan,
    Last time your guess about David going to the civil war shows was right on the money. Maybe your guess about him attending Jordin’s show will pan out again. 🙂

  33. Ummmm so maybe i don’t understand you? OK LOL , Listen, the all point is that i seriously doubt his beliefs are an issue, not in the dimension to be an obstacle on his way to the succes, of course All the ‘Beliefs’ have bigots and passionate people ( just google about and tell me later, ALL of them and LDS Church is not the exception at all) , David had and hoping still having the support of many people on the media and fans with all kind religious background and life style, his gay fanbase was big even with the prop 8 thing, ( i have my doubts about if some other part of his fan-base were happy about their support and that is a different thing though) i read many comments by then and people were not judging him for what his Church did or are doing , tbh , you can find good people every where, i mean people who don’t judge by revenge. So don’t tell me the intolerance to his religion is an Big issue in his career, when his own fansites disqualify every artist he can be associated just because don’t fit their moral standards or life style …..and in consequence they too judge people like bad guys because they’re not like David.
    In any case Dear GG , my apologized if in misinterpreted your comment, maybe you right , maybe i get lost in the translation , one more time i need to day that most of his fans and people in general , media include don’t care about what he believes, most of us coming to support his career because we felt in love with his voice, many of this supporters don’t even come to the fansites, they are anonymous supporters that don’t need to believed what he believes to support him, many of us don’t see him like an spiritual guide, an angel or like someone say in IDF like the second baby Jesus or demigod like some said on twitter….Many of us see just David an great human being with a voice that make us feel and we want with all our heart him to do well on his career and life.

  34. Question… this baptism by proxy… has the person/did the deceased person getting baptized give consent or express a desire/wish while living for this procedure to take place? Does the person baptized have to have been LDSbe a Mormon? Does baptism by proxy in essence make one a member of the LDS, in absentia, so to speak… I’m really a little unclear about this, and though I have done a lot of reading up on and research the past 3 years on LDS I’m still confused by some things, and do wish to get a clear understanding of the LDS, and it has shaped David the singer/artist…

    • See my comment above.

      • Hmmmm… will require some more reading… I’m intrigued now… on an intellectual level… I’m not looking to cast judgment, just seeking knowledge… while we wait for some career news to occupy the mind…

    • The ordinance of baptism for the dead absolutely does not make the deceased person a member of the LDS Church. Free agency is integral to the LDS faith.

      • But if dead baptism are considered to do the statistics about the growth of the Church ( is what i read in their sources.) technically they become members of the Church right? free agency in their case apply just in the after life if they decide to not accept the gift if i’m undestanding .

      • ”Understanding” i mean

      • Only baptisms of live people are included in the membership growth statistics. Likewise, when a member of the LDS church dies, they are no longer a part of the membership stats. The number of members refers to living members, period. Otherwise, the LDS Church would probably be one of the largest in the world if it counted all the proxy baptisms. 🙂

      • Absolutely.

      • “Growth consists both of convert baptisms and natural growth through the birth of children.”–lds.org

    • A person has to be dead for at least a year if they are to be baptized by proxy. That person, on the other side, has the option to accept or reject the baptism. It is not forced upon them. Also, the family must give their concent to the baptism of their deceased. If not then a hundred years have to go by before they can be baptized. If you don’t believe in this doctrine, you shouldn’t be concerned. If the church is false then the ordinances, such as eternal marraige, are false and shouldn’t bother anyone.

  35. ”and how it has helped shape David the singer/artist”… this is how the last sentence should read…

  36. R.I.P Clarence Clemons

  37. David, or another LDS person would be dunked in a font in behalf of the dead person.

    The only problem I have with this ritual is WHICH dead and HOW MANY? Do you know how many people have died without accepting the Mormon faith? Is he required to do this ritual numerous times?

    Yes, TMI. Definitely TMI! There’s only some basic tenets I might want to know about a person’s faith. Afterwards, the details of how they practice it can be a bit distracting.

    Sigh. I’d rather think about David in various meetings in Nashville right about now…

    • Yep, me 2 HG… I think I will continue my readings, and keep my own counsel (until I can’t) about some things… I got enough stuff in my own life to occupy my brainspace, but I’m a sucker for knowledge – back to prep for Sunday activities… time to give the cabeaza a rest for the evening, lol

    • One of my colleagues is an expert in Mormon doctrine and has written about it. I have had some fascinating conversations with him. Of course he was puzzled why I was interested in the religion, as there are few Mormons in my area. I explained that I followed an “artist” who is of the faith. He assumed I was talking about a painter or Mormon science fiction writer. 🙂

    • …and a person of the faith, like any religion, may accept some tenants of the faith and not others. I know some very liberal Mormons, just as I know some liberal followers of my own faith who believe in relative truth and other issues.

    • The are doing their work, trust me, i guess with good intention, at least they think so, last time i read some very important personalities of the history were already in the church list 😐 …. but you right , TMI sometimes is kind of shocking or extremely weird for us, happened to me when someone mentioned on twitter David by part of this ritual, then i did my research and took me at least two months to take away the visual of my mind , but then i decided to be more careful about this all fangirly thing and stay focus in music and career news, that is what we should do , just a suggestion :).

    • “There’s only some basic tenets I might want to know about a person’s faith. Afterwards, the details of how they practice it can be a bit distracting.”

      Yes. I’ve studied a few different religions and have realized that without a faith-based perspective, lots of beliefs and practices seem weird to me, so I get how people will look at LDS beliefs and practices and think they’re strange. Plus, I’m a convert, so some things in my own religion seemed strange until I had a stronger spiritual understanding.

      Btw, there’s a scripture in Corinthians that refers to baptisms for the dead, so there is a scriptural basis for this ordination.

      Back to thoughts about Nashville…

      • i don’t think Corinthians is a good example , a lot of discussion about that part, i don’t think the Bible was approving the practice considered pagan at that time in in that geographic location , Paul said ”they” and not ”we” btw….just take the all context in consideration……. aaaaand G’night i move on from this discussion, hoping for music news in the next weeks. 😉

      • The LDS church , I’m sure, has an official explanation for this in addition to the Corinthians rationale, but the story “on the street” is that when the founder’s brother, Alvin, I think, died, a local minister upset the Smith family by claiming that because he wasn’t baptized, he was going to hell. So Joseph Smith created the ceremony of baptism for the dead to comfort his family. I can’t vouch for this.

      • I’d rather not get into scriptural analyses here, but what you’re saying doesn’t make sense. Paul speaks about baptizing the dead as a defense for resurrection. Why use a “pagan ritual” to defend his point?

  38. I’m trying to decide whether to say something else……….*drumming fingers on desk* ……

  39. I appreciate the link to the LDS.org site. I don’t find the concept of ordinances for ancestors as odd. Many people of different cultures, ethnicities, tribes, etc., have religious beliefs/practices that involve interaction with a deceased ancestor and/or the ancestors spirit. I’m not saying this right but I hopefully you get what I mean.

    Re. civil rights for individuals, I’m not very elegant with words so I’ll just say that I’m very uncomfortable with what I perceive as human beings treating other human beings as if they’re a lesser classification of human. This statement isn’t directed at anyone in particular. In general, I’m thinking about individuals who’ve had to fight for equal protection under the law.

    • With you there regarding civil rights issues desertrat. Until you have been on the receiving end, or have close relatives that have been on the receiving end of civil rights injustices – up to and including bodily harm and sometimes death – it’s hard for some to understand the passion in which they will be defended by those who owe a debt to those who had to endure unimaginable injustices (and it wasn’t all that long ago ) in order to have better lives, respect and dignity for themselves, and future generations… I believe in forgiveness, but I also believe in never forget, and never again.

      • Read Matthew 6:12 – 15 and Matthew 18: 21-25 It just so happens that
        I am giving this lesson today to my 10 year old Primary children.

  40. In addition to lds.org, another great website is mormon.org. Should have looked this up earlier. Here is an informative treatment of the baptisms for the dead topic.

    http://mormon.org/faq/#Baptism|question=/faq/baptism-for-the-dead/

  41. Off topic but Nigel Lythgoe accidentally tweeted his phone number. Now everyone is calling him. He deserves this, lol.

    • Can I be childish for a moment and stick out my tongue and go, ” neener, neener, neener’, hehehehehe 🙂 Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy 🙂

  42. Yeah, sorry, I definitely don’t believe that baptism of the dead is biblical. Once a person dies, they go straight to their eternal home….Speaking of which, it’s midnight here, and the tornado siren’s going off. So I’m going to the basement, before I end up in MY eternal home. lol.

  43. VJ, love your sly humor 🙂 I hope everything is OK now, and you and everyone else is safe…

  44. ”I know, Tibi, it really gives you pause, when you think you actually know a famous person. I have to remind myself, I don’t know him at all.”

    This. I strive to keep this uppermost in mind about David. I love the singer, the artist, and am avidly watching his maturity and growth as an artist, but I never delude myself into thinking that I have ever or will ever ‘know’ him. And that’s ok – my expectations of and from him are pretty simple – afford me the opportunity as a fan to hear you sing, to buy your music, and to enjoy watching you share your vocal gift live when the opportunity presents itself. In other areas, I may be intrigued and have natural curiosity, but I respect the boundaries that exist, and can live and let David live the life he chooses. I love /have loved artists and people who have been rascals and rogues and rebellious, held what appeared to the public to be some questionable/interesting beliefs, some who lived lives of piety, some whose genius got lost in decadence and hedonistic excess (see my avi), lol… but I love their creativity and artistry just the same… I guess I can include a 20 year old uber gifted devout Mormon singer from Utah into the fold… Variety is the spice of life, and I don’t discriminate 🙂

  45. While this discussion of Mormon beliefs was taking place David was working on music stuff with the Silver Seas and eating cake. I will say that I have been surprised that some of the Mormon beliefs are very similar to my conservative Baptist upbringing, but not the baptizing the dead!

  46. It doesn’t bother me that some religions pray to a statue of a dead person if that’s what they believe will get them certain blessings. Just saying.

  47. Every religious group probably practices in some ways that look “wrong” or “different” or “off” to outsiders. Mormonism and some other non-Catholic or protestant groups (e.g. Jehovah’s Witness) do seem to be less understood. I believe that David has truly helped me be more open-minded in accepting those whose beliefs don’t closely align with my own.

    About gay rights: I could be wrong, but I’m thinking that the church (as an organization in general, and I’m speaking of all churches) is never the place where social change catches on. Seems that often the church is late into the game, as more and more members change their way of thinking. I do understand that the Proposition 8 controversy was more political although I won’t pretend I know any more than the surface news that was reported. I just think there are always shades of gray that we don’t know about different sides of an issue.

  48. The basic teachings of the gospel as taught my Jesus Christ never change with the times. A truth is always a truth. The organization and teachings of the Mormon church is the same exact church that existed in the times of Christ. Example, a prophet and apostles.

    • Churches change. It changed during the century of the First Christians, when the Church was thought to be a cult, to when Constantine took it over and let Church leaders rule with political power.

      It changed in this country, from when Calvinists taught only a select few would enter the kingdom of heaven, to the Great Religious Awakening, when even slaves and women were thought to have souls and could have a direct line to God.

      It changed from thinking slavery was okay back in the 19th century, and I’m quite sure it will change in the 21st century about same-sex rights.

      God may not change, human beings always do.

      • Good points, HG.

      • Shanny in Australia

        “God may not change, human beings always do”

        I thought that was Suzy’s point. Particularly the ‘God may not change’ part. She said ‘A truth is always a truth”. I agree with that.

        That’s whats wrong with society today…there are no moral truths anymore…there is nothing with which to measure actions and decisions by. In the past, whether you were religious or not, there were still widely accepted moral truths. Lying was lying and stealing was stealing. Then it changed to….youre ok to do anything you want as long as you’re not hurting anyone. Now, I think it is even beginning to change to….you can do anything you want as long as you can get away with it. We’ve forgotten the truth that never changes. Despite what society teaches us today …lying is STILL lying an stealing is STILL stealing.

      • hell0g0rge0us

        I think certain moral truths are pretty consistent, like how we feel about stealing or lying. To me, what seems to change over the years is our social interactions and relationships with each other. That’s what mostly changes, in terms of which groups get treated as less than, and which do not.

      • Shanny in Australia

        I look at what passes for entertainment in the industry today and I think things have changed drastically. I look at people who think it is ok to keep the extra change the checkout person accidentally gave them and I think things have changed. I look at how people download music illegally and I think things have changed. I look at disgusting comments at many places on the web (like youtube or online newspaper comments) and I think things have changed. I look at broken relationships all around me (and the new style of relationships) and I think things have changed. I look at the excessive lifestyles that are the norm and I think things have changed.

        You are probably right that there is always some issue with groups of people going on. These days it is Muslims who are the bad guys to be shunned and stereotyped. But I DO think that people’s moral truths have definitely changed.

    • The Mormon church has changed drastically, i.e polygamy.

      • This is particularly ironic considering the church’s insistence that the definition of marriage shouldn’t change.

  49. That’s the problem with some Christian religions today. It confuses it’s folowers by telling them that something is wrong one day and Ok the next. That’s why there are so many different religions in the world. Unautherized preachers interpret the scriptures to go with the times so that they will keep their following. They say what the congregation wants to hear. Why? Because of power and greed.

    • And that is hitting the nail on the head.

    • In the song “I Believe” from The Book of Mormon, it’s amusing when the missionary sings to the warlord, “I believe. . .that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people. . .so now you can be a Mormon too!”

      • (I’m referring to the Broadway play, not the book).

      • Shanny in Australia

        I posted about this issue in the next thread.

      • Apparently God changed his mind about polygamy too, when Utah wanted statehood. The U.S. Government required a ban to be written in the state constitution, and voila, a revelation from God.

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