115 comments on “Behind the Scenes of My Kind of Christmas

  1. The video was very well done, nice Christmas gift for the fans.
    Off topic: saw the star that were more chariable in 2012, Taylor Swift being #1, so nice to see that a lot of star give so much. It got me thinking about David (of course everything regarding entertainment makes me think of David), if he had the same star status as these other stars, he would probably be number #1.

  2. I agree with you cq that David would be one of the most charitable celebrities if he was here and if he had the same celebrity status as they do. Good for Taylor Swift.

  3. Yes he would be…but not until AFTER giving his ten percent to the Mormon Church which is required by all LDS registered members.

  4. Giving to the Mormon Church qualifies as charitable giving so that 10 percent would count. Taylor probably gives to her church. Most of my charitable giving is to my church (I am not Mormon). David seems to love to give to charities, sing for charities and lend his name so others will give. If he made the amount of money that Taylor made I would guess that he would have given more money to charities than Taylor IMHO. I am happy that Taylor does give so much to charities. Too many celebs spend way too much money on extravagant things for themselves and friends.

  5. If a person follows what the Bible says than 10 percent should be given to the church. It isn’t just a rule for Mormons. Mormons are required to do it for membership but other churches don’t require it.

  6. No, not at all. The “bad” thing is that the church takes the tithes but has never & will never give an accounting to their members how their tithes are used. Why the secrecy? Like any organization, the hierarchy benefit.

    BTW, I know of what I speak, having been a member until very recently. Now I give freely & willingly to my new church knowing the pastors live much like the members of their congregation.

    Don’t wish to start a long drawn out discussion. However many Mormon’s total charitable contributions are the ten percent they are required to give to the church. Mainly because they can’t afford to give more. They trust the church to use their charity wisely, not only to build malls, buy vast plots of land, etc. Members are not given a yearly accounting as most other religious institutions give to their members.

    We know David lends his name to charities, especially those involving children. He grossed several million dollars since the end of AI until he left on his mission. Just imagine if instead of giving to his church with no idea how his hard earned money was being used, he gave the ten percent or more of his gross earnings to those children’s charities where he could SEE the benefits? That’s all I’m trying to say.

  7. i spy #mic at 11:57. my internet is slow tonight and the video keeps stopping. i can’t wait to see the video in its entirety.

  8. This was a similar issue with Mitt Romney. Around 80 to 95 percent of his donations went to the Mormon Church, which, it is estimated, gives only .7 percent to charity (that’s point seven, not 7). They build elaborate temples which are used mostly to baptize dead people of other faiths and have a huge business empire, including a $2 billion plus mall, hunting preserves and resorts.

    http://www.thenation.com/blog/170105/romneys-ungenerous-donations#

  9. desertrat you have a good eye. Did #mic lose alot of weight as I would not have recognized him if you had not pointed it out. He actually looked good. I understand your observation eyeswideopen that if David gave his donations to the children’s charities he could then see the benefits as opposed to the church. I have to agree but then again I do not donate to any church or religion so I guess I would not get it.

  10. David’s father was very involved, albeit behind the scenes, in the MKOC tour. I had an opportunity to speak with him at one venue after the show. He is a soft spoken man and very proud of David. Like David, he sincerely appreciates David’s supporters. He stayed as far behind the scenes as possible for the MKOC tour I assume out of respect for David knowing how many fans feel about him but he was there. I’m not possitive, but he is probably still involved. I don’t see how David could or would trust anyone other than his parents to take care of his interests while on his mission.

  11. I will admit that I’ve wondered where the money goes that Mormon’s tithe (10 percent) to their church since they don’t pay any pastors. Most of their ministers seem to be unpaid lay leaders and missionaries. In our church we have several paid pastors and other paid staff. In fact my husband works for our church and does a variety of things which include administration, tech (sound, video, video editing). It is a full time job. We have a minister of music too which is another full time job. Mormon’s would not pay for any of these jobs. I have always thought that if David was a Protestant he could have a career in Christian music but as a Mormon there is no career in music in that religion as their music is mainly unpaid lay people. I could be wrong about that as I wonder if Rebecca Lopez was paid to sing at the Devotional since she was not a missionary.

    Yes. Mic does look better. I wonder what he is doing now. hopefully he has a paying job so David does not have to keep supporting his family. I hope Lupe is gainfully employed too. I hope David will just have to worry about supporting himself when he gets back.

  12. Just a little courious question: Did Jeff go on a mission? Claudia didn’t, I think because she got married….or can she go after marriage before having children? Daniel is about the right age to go, isn’t he? Really don’t expect any answers.

    Yes, Jeff does look like he lost weight, he looks good. David has his dad’s walk, hehehe!

  13. You are mistaken. The president of the church does get paid an amount equal to a CEO’s salary. There are other officials who are paid equal to executive’s of a large corporation. Which is basically what the Mormon organization is, a very wealthy and secretive organization when it comes to their vast holdings.

    The exodus of members increases year after year as more use the Internet to research and investigate the history and current practices of the Mormon church. The truth is there everywhere, ex-Mormons telling their stories, even on YouTube.

    The truth is that true Christians must have a deeper reverence & love for the Christ they worship than for the church they belong to. The LDS church requires the opposite or so it seemed to me for a very long time.

  14. i have no answers to your questions but i do have comments. :)

    i believe that claudia is leading the standing ovation at 13:54; next to her, her husband follows her lead.

    also, i agree that david walks just like his dad. his brother has many of his mom’s mannerism. and i’ve spent entirely too much time tracking this family over the past 4 1/2 yrs, lol.

  15. Yes he did. Some place in the U.S., but Spanish-speaking, if I remember right. It’s rare for young women to go on missions, especially if they have a tough physical ailment, as Claudia does.

  16. desertrat you are good. lol. That does appear to be Claudia and her husband. Again I would not have caught that. That was smart of mic to lose the goatee. I think there is nothing wrong with questioning where the money is going in any organized religion. The truth will always come out eventually to those who want to believe it.

  17. Jeff did go on a mission.

    Claudia married a recently returned missionary.

    Only the “worthy” can be “endowed” and only the “endowed” can be called to be a missionary. Whether Daniel meets the criteria or even wants to, is yet to be seen. The same goes for the younger sisters.

  18. Oh I realized that the people at the top got paid. I was just surprised that there were so many that didn’t. My Dad has been a pastor at protestant churches for over 50 years and received a paycheck even though some of the churches that he preached at were small. In the Mormon religion he would not have been paid.

  19. They recently lowered the missionary age so women can now go at 19 and men at 18 so there are going to be an increase soon per some mission blogs that I read. There is especially an increase in women. I think there will soon be more women going since there won’t be as many married at 19. They don’t go if they are married except the older, senior missionaries from what I can tell.

  20. From my limited knowledge of the family my guess is the younger sisters have more chance of going on a mission than Daniel, but Daniel may have changed since he was tweeting when 14. We really haven’t seen or heard much about him in recent years.

  21. I don’t know anything about Daniel or his opinions, except he “likes” missionaries and other LDS things on Facebook. Our family friend was apparently very wild, including many tattoos, but cleaned up his act and went on an LDS mission.

    I see that there is already a cryptic photo on Facebook of David’s skype session yesterday–only a white-shirted shoulder with a small photo of a sister.

  22. My perspective on it is that I am grateful that I live in a country where people are still free to worship or not worship their belief of choice and are free to tell others about things they feel passionate about. I’m also grateful that there are so many places in the world that this is also true. If someone wants to tell me about their beliefs, that’s fine. It is certainly no obligation that I agree with them or, if I’m at home, if I even answer the door. I’m much more afraid of a world where we’re not allowed to share what we believe in with others. That’s just imho though.

    As to whether the door-to-door is actually an effective method, well that’s a whole other discussion lol.

  23. I really enjoyed that behind the scenes glance at a bit of what it takes to make a tour tick. I especially enjoyed the perspective of the band & crew since we don’t get to hear much from them normally. Its kind of a mind-boggling amount of things that go into a single show day on tour.

    Hey guys, we made it through the first and the second to last Christmas before David comes back!! lol.

    Saw this posted over at MJ’s in the year-end Billboard charts. He was in 2 of the 2012 cumulative BB charts with the GCT MoTab album:

    Classical Crossover Albums Artists
    13 David Archuleta featured “Glad Christmas Tidings” Mormon Tabernacle Choir/Orchestra at Temple Square

    Classical Crossover Albums
    12 David Archuleta featured “Glad Christmas Tidings” Mormon Tabernacle Choir/Orchestra at Temple Square

  24. I don’t think it’s wrong but they are so young without the life experiences behind them. Part of what they do is counsel people. That’s tough to know what to say at such a young age. Very effective missionaries in my church are married and have children. They could not be missionaries in the Mormon religion. The Mormon religion Mission rules seem just so different and unusual to me. It is a really hard thing for these young men and women to do being cut off from technology and family plus not having a car. These are the things that young people really enjoy so I do give them props for their willingness to sacrifice this for two years. It has to be hard. I will never understand why they can’t loosen up their technology rules. I think it’s sad they can’t Skype with their families more. It isn’t even costly in this day and age.

  25. Um, legitimate sources please? I highly doubt that the president of the church makes “an amount equal to a CEO’s salary”. I pass his home all the time, as well as where past presidents of the church have lived. It’s an extremely modest condo near Temple Square. Hardly the type of home a CEO would live in. The church president receives only a stipend, as do, I believe many of the leaders of the church. Their standard of living mostly depends on their earlier careers. I happen to live near several of them. Those who were previously employed as doctors, lawyers and airline pilots live in very nice, expensive homes. Those who previously worked in education or for the church for many years live in the same homes they probably have owned for 40 years–very modest houses. And, btw, there are thousands of people who work for the LDS Church and receive salaries–architects, secretaries, repairmen, teachers, administrators, directors, etc. I live near a lot of them too. No one receives salaries near a CEO’s pay. Some make a fairly impressive amount, but less than they would have in a secular company, and some make just a modest amount.

  26. Ali, I just don’t get it, in what way did my statement made you think that I don’t believe in freedom? I still think that anyone is free to do what they want, even if I think it’s wrong, but I defiently don’t have to like it.

  27. I agree with you Ali that “I’m more afraid of a world where we are not allowed to share what we believe…” Amen to that!!

    I have read that the Mormon religion is growing worldwide. That would be because of the many missionaries IMHO. Now there will be even more with the age change.

  28. cq – I never said you didn’t believe in freedom; I was just offering my perspective on what I think of the missionaries going door to door and it being called “wrong”. Sorry if I misinterpreted your use of the word.

  29. I agree Ali. I thought that the behind the scenes of the tour was very interesting in the video. I wonder who put the video together. Maybe Kari?

  30. Ali, I do respect freedom for anyone, heck, I guess if some guy came to my door and tells me that his is the true church because he had just talked to God and he had sent him to pass on His word and now my way of worshiping is all wrong, yay, I respect his freedom to do so, but in no way am I buying it or even listening to him, imo it’s also my freedom to think he is selling a line of bull.

  31. I read that over two thirds of people who are counted by the Mormon church are actually not active in the church and/or don’t count themselves as Mormons.

    There was a huge scandal in Chile about ten years ago, where high-pressure on the missionaries had resulted in a large number of fraudulent baptisms. Church leaders came in and closed down over a third of the churches that had been created and reformed the system.

    This is why David is probably spending a lot of time trying to reactivate past members rather than going door to door to find new ones.

  32. LOL I’m not trying to advocate for the church. I’m not a member. I was merely speaking toward being allowed to discuss personal beliefs with others. That’s something that I’m quite passionate about, as you guys probably already know :)

    I’ll freely admit that I don’t know enough about David’s religion to get into a debate about it. I know some. Some I agree with, some I don’t but I also know that I don’t have all the facts so I generally choose not to get into tenet discussions about it because of that.

    What I do like is hearing the perspectives of others. I hope that my sharing of my perspectives does not make anyone think that I am rejecting theirs. How will we learn to look at things from all angles if we don’t know those angles?

  33. Oh my gosh, it’s like listening to a CEO of a company. After listening to this guy, it really get the feeling it’s about the church getting more powerful period. The only thing that makes me feel a little better is that David might not be doing to much door to door proselytizing.

  34. Unfortunately, I’ve been checking this site less and less as it seems to have become more a site for “what is wrong with the Mormon religion” than anything to do with David. It makes me sad because I have really enjoyed this site. Peace.

  35. I beg to differ, there is plently of other topics and conversations that go on this site. Hg works very hard to give us topics that are interesting and David related. Yes, sometimes we go on a path that makes some fans unconfortable, but it’s freedom to express what you are feeling that makes this site so glorious.

  36. I would love it if we could just talk about David’s music career but that is difficult when he is on a mission for 2 years. I for one can’t wait till he returns and that is the discussion. I think talk of the mission and the pros and cons of it is just bound to come up. It will effect his career. David and his family are sure taking a financial hit by his being away from his career for so long.

  37. The church would help itself if it had more openness about its finances in the U.S. and not just places where it is required to be open.

    There are a lot of comments on LDS topics because it’s interesting and controversial, and one of the few relevant things in Davidland right now.

  38. I think the openness to even controversial discussion does characterize this site, but the topic changes, IMO. Love the BTS video from Team Archuleta and I’ll be tuned in for whatever comes in 2014.

  39. Right on cc halo…..I would love to be talking about David’s fabulous music career, but as long as he is away (imo) anything to keep sites open and fans still interested is fine in my book. As you said LDS topics are controversial that’s what makes it interesting.

  40. Just a Lurker – If it makes you uncomfortable than by all means look at all the other David fansites as they do not allow discussion of David’s mission or his religion. This is about the only site that does. I happen to like discussing the Mormon religion. I knew practically nothing about it before I became a David fan. There are parts of it I really like – that they do believe in the Bible. There are also parts that leave me puzzled and that I don’t agree with such as The Book of Mormon. Their long list of rules that must be followed make me glad that I am not a Mormon. The last big controvery I read in the paper was some women were going to wear “gasp” pants to church on Sunday. Wow, I wear pants to church every Sunday!

  41. Yes grammyj I agree with you. Just a Lurker, I really don’t want you to abandon this site altogether, but I’m with grammyj, other David sites that don’t allow discussion of David’s mission or his religion. Probably will make you more comfortable.

  42. Lol on the pants thing. Apparently it’s sometimes shocking for men not to wear a white shirt. David is very faithful, with all of his white shirts.

  43. I came to appreciate David for his incredible voice and phenominal vocal talents. There are many religions in the world and yes there are questions about the practices and beliefs of the LDS religion. There are conflicts in most religions. So looking at all of that, I hope that we can actually shelve the talk about David and religion. There is so much negativity that it takes away from David the singer. This doesn’t have to follow him the rest of his life with questions, religious duscussions, arguments and differences of opinions. I wish that we could stay away from his personal life as it seems to be highly respectful to do that. It would be something that we can give back to him. If you aren’t a fan then help yourself. He is on a mission., he asked for privacy so take it from there…

    SB

  44. Seeing this video reminds me what a great band and vibe David was developing before he left.
    Also, I really like Mark as the musical director. He seemed to be a eallu good fit- professional, low key and talented.

    I don’t blame people for discussing their thoughts on LDS. If their assumptions and information is incorrect, then hopefully, those will speak up and correct.

    It is normal for fans, in trying to understand David and his decision, to investiage his faith. In fact, it would be odd for someone who has followed and supported David’s career, to not try to understand more,

    Fortunately, this is a blog where people can speak up. Freedom of speech as well as religion is something many people have died for. That includes the freedom to spread your faith- door to door, if that is your choice to do. Not my choice, but yours- which I fully defend…. ( unless it is against a local ordinance or some countries laws, as soom communities it may be).

  45. But when is this religious talk enough? It has been a year of investigating. It is like a long court case. Is it that complicated? Perhaps so…

    SB

  46. I intended no disrespect to anyone here at this site, especially HG, whose articles I have found so insightful, thought-provoking, and respectful. I usually enjoy the sharing of ideas and beliefs, and I truly have no problem with “talk of the mission and the pros and cons”, but lately it seems that every thread, no matter what the article is about, ends up discussing all things negative about the Mormon religion. I actually love to hear about all religions and their beliefs, and this site used to have some wonderful LDS posters who shared insights into their religion as well, but they seem to have all gone elsewhere, and all that seems to be left is negative, lop-sided discussions. Don’t worry, I’m not crying for censorship or rainbows and sunshine, and have no intention of trying change a thing here, I’m just making an observation, just like everyone else here. As someone said upthread, there are other sites out there…and each one serves its purpose and all different types of fans.

  47. LOL, yes, perhaps so. It was a controversarial decision then, and some people will continue to try to figure it out. Some will accept or have accepted, and some never can or will.

    In 10 years, it will just be a short hiatus. But as the two years drag on, I am not surpirsed that it continues to garner discussion.

    I also thought the BTS video was very well done. And, brings appreciation to the immense amount of work , and cost, that goes on to put on a show.

  48. I like to go on FOD and other sites, but I wouldn’t want to tell them that some of the topics they cover endlessly are “enough” (for example, providing hits to websites that have constant polls, or David’s future love life, including fan fiction). I just skim if it doesn’t interest me.

  49. I’m not sure if those were meant as rhetorical questions. As someone who comes here several times a day to read, I recall several posters recently sharing (on this blog) info regarding their personal religious upbringing. As such, I now have a better understanding of why the topic of religion is of interest to them. As long as there aren’t personal attacks, does there need to be a cut off date on discussion of religion?

    A topic that gives me reason to less frequently visit some sites is the fact that they have count downs and discussions re. David’s return in 2014. I find the discussion upsetting and an intrusive. However, I don’t think the discussions should stop just because of the way I feel.

  50. For my part, I try to be accurate and truthful, and almost always in response to others’ questions. I too, welcome corrections from people with another perspective, like Utahmom or FBFL, but sometimes, legitimate questions have resulted only in criticism of the questioner.

    We’ve all heard about the “Mormon Moment” of the last election, maybe we’re just extending it a while, because we’re still so entranced with David. (Not that I was ever entranced with Romney, lol).

  51. David demonstrates the very best part of his religion IMHO. He seems to “walk the walk” so to speak. I truly hope he is getting a lot out of his mission, and that it is all that he thought it would be.

  52. “If their assumptions and information is incorrect, then hopefully, those will speak up and correct.”

    I wish it were that easy. I am an OTT David fan, Tweeter and frequent commenter on other Archuleta fan sites. I am also an active member of the LDS Church. Much of what is posted here about the church is shared in a gossipy manner, meaning it contains false assumptions, rumors, half-truths and biased opinions. Many of the sources cited as “authoritative” are laughable.

    I do understand the curiosity of other David fans about David’s religion, although the fact that he does not discuss that part of his private life should be a clue for us. Officially, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints invites sincere curiosity; but it is a little weird to regard the word of ex-Mormons, anti-Mormons, YouTube, a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend, or even pastors of other churches as official versions of what Mormons believe and do. To call it credible research is beyond weird.

    There are about a dozen erroneous or half-true statements in the comments here regarding LDS Church doctrine and/or practice. Corrections and clarifications from LDS members have been posted before, only to be disregarded or used as basis for contention. Consequently (as another poster suggested) many LDS fans no longer visit here; it is not friendly or respectful territory. Ali has the right prospective when she reminds us that we are free to choose, and suggests that we accept or reject and simply move on together as fans.

    To be perfectly honest, what is often referred to here as an “open discussion” about the LDS Church is far more offensive than informative, and often more confused than correct. I would never engage in anything similar about the belief systems of others—especially regarding principles they deem to be sacred—in such a dismissive or derisive manner.

  53. Thanks for your comment. I really do appreciate all viewpoints here. I do follow other music artists and just hope for the best for David’s career when he returns.

  54. Ok after reading your comment again, I feel like you are scouling us fans that don’t agree. I do respect your right fo feel the way you do, but please, I have the right to feel the way I do also.

  55. This is what I was referring to in my last comment. It’s ad hominem. Two thirds of Mormons are ex-Mormons, they’ve been there: bishops, stake presidents, the oldest grandson of a prophet, relief society presidents, etc. They know what they’re talking about. Don’t attack the source, just say what is incorrect.

  56. there are 2 people here who ars so against davids religion,that i wish they would tell us theres so we can openly dicuss and compare thers with davids ,,one i belive doesnb,t have one

  57. P.S. The video I posted is a believing Mission President, Temple President, MTC President, BYU Professor. I didn’t think many people would be interested, but other than being long and dull, I didn’t see how anyone could take offense.

  58. Ha ha, I was just going to offer that, but I wanted to cut down the length of my reply. I would like it, but I doubt anyone would care–I’m not a famous singer.

  59. You have every right to disagree, and it was certainly not my intent to scold anyone. I am only hoping others will respect my beliefs in the same manner I try to respect theirs.

  60. Thank you, Ray. I know it is socially acceptable to bash Mormons, but it does get tiring.

  61. ray, you are a great fan of David’s as I am. Maybe giving you a little background about my religious upbringing might help. I was raised in a strict Catholic family and I too believed as my mother and father did…but as an adult I stepped away from the Church and only answer and talk to my God that created me. I still believe in some of the teaching of Catholicism, but you could say, I am not a practicing Catholic because I don’t believe in all there docrines.. I’m not ashamed of who I am and when my time comes, I will be judged by Oh Mighty God and only Him.

  62. famous singer or not it,s not right to bash anyones religon,they all have there faults,,i could go on and on about the catholic religon,as i am an ex also.and they all have good points to,david would be so ashamed if he saw this site some times.

  63. cq, you just described my Catholic upbringing except my parents were not so strict with it. I am no longer a practicing Catholic either but I do believe in some of their teachings. The important thing is that David is happy in what he is doing even though I don’t quite understand it. I really hope he is.

  64. Oh so you converted to the LDS from being a Catholic, I understand. I’m glad that you admit that LDS has it’s faults, like other religions. I was under the inpression that Mormonism was the only true pure religion and that all others were corrupted, so it’s nice to know that you believe that your religion has faults like all other religions. BTW, I totally agree with you on that point.

  65. cq never said i converted,thats one of your problems you assume and never look for facts.,i just belive just in god

  66. I was going by what you wrote and how strong you feel about the LDS church. I’m sorry that I assumed you were Mormon. Btw, I do look up facts, not just ex-mormon stuff.
    One thing, as far as David being ashame of site, I totally disagree. Hg is a true and wonderful fan and I really think that David would respect this site just like any other one of his other sites and would not be ashamed at all.

  67. Missionaries hear plenty of negative stuff about their church–it’s part of the deal, and they’re used to it. Just because we’re fans doesn’t mean we can’t discuss his church, as long as we try to be truthful.

    Back to the video– I thought it was interesting that David says about the crowd in Salt Lake that they’re “supportive”. I’m sure that all of his crowds are extremely supportive of him, but he must have been pretty nervous about his announcement at the time the video was made, and the word “supportive” slipped out because he was anticipating the crowd’s response about that, not about his show in general.

  68. cc halo, I caught that too about the video. Looking back, it really was a good move in his part, that crowd would be the most supportive and besides he got a ton of great buzz.
    I think you and I are in the dog house, lol…I like being in the dog house, how about you.

  69. Only two people out of almost 250 employees received salaries in the $160,000-$200,000 (Canadian dollars, not US) range. It was an assumption that they are “officials”. If things in Canada are much like they are here in my neighborhood, which has an inordinate amount of church officials and employees living in it, it’s much more likely that they are accountants or lawyers employed by the church than ecclesiastical leaders.

  70. Over 50,000 missionaries are approaching people, telling them their beliefs are wrong. It doesn’t seem like respecting other’s beliefs to me.

  71. o he would not be ashamed of hg just some of the posters,likew you,and i dont see where i said any thing strong about the lds church,ther you go assemune again i mam done go to bed q past your bed time hehehe

  72. I think Scientogy has Mormons beat as far as being socially acceptable to be bashed, besides I think all religions have been bashed in some form or another, not to comforting, but your religion is not alone.

  73. I agree, cchalo, I wish the LDS church would be more open about finances, I think it would help. And I understand why people want to discuss the Mormon religion, it’s just that the prevailing negativity gets tiresome for me, although I don’t always keep up with the discussions here anymore.

    Also, this is jmho, but I thought the “wear pants to church” idea was kinda dumb. Lots of women wear pants to church, just not those who came up with the idea, apparently. I tell my children that dressing up for church is a way to show respect for the Savior. “Dressing up” varies greatly region to region. In Utah, that usually means dresses for women, but no one in my congregation bats an eye when women show up in pants. And while he does usually wear white shirts, my husband often wears other colors as well to church. He thinks there should be equal time for men: a “don’t wear a tie to church day”. :)

  74. ray, I “assume” you are addressing this comment to me. So you think David would be ashame to have me as a fan, hmm. BTW, how old do you think I am?

  75. Probably should sign off for awhile, but I might as well go out with a bang. Here’s my problem: The central idea of the Book of Mormon is that there were two groups of people in ancient America, the good ones (the Nephites) and the bad ones (the Lamanites, ancestors of Native Americans). The good ones were “white and delightsome” and the bad ones were cursed with a “skin of blackness”. When bad people reformed, their skin was supposed to become lighter. These concepts were affirmed in many, many statements by past leaders, the book is meant to be literal history and is taught as such by the missionaries.

    In recent years, “white and delightsome” has been changed to “PURE and delightsome”, the “skin of blackness” is said to not mean “skin”, and the Lamanites have been changed to being “AMONG the ancestors of Native Americans. I suppose in this modern day, no one can stomach the older concepts, but they are still basically there in the scriptures. Also, Romney and church leaders will not say that the exclusion of blacks from full membership in the church was ever wrong, only that they’re glad it’s over. I just don’t get how people don’t see this as a major problem.

  76. Google: In-Laman-s-Terms–Looking-at-Lamanite-Identity-Culture Unplugged. The link won’t post, but it is a documentary by a Native American about the harm that the Mormon church has done to his people.

  77. Here’s a thought: How about we leave google and YouTube alone and if you are really interested in finding out what the Book of Mormon teaches, find a copy and read it. I’ll bet there is a *gasp* missionary in your town that will lend you a copy.

    I used to post here frequently about the LDS religion but found it frustrating that everyone was missing the entire point. I am glad that CC brought up the Book of Mormon, because for me and for many LDS people, it is the Book of Mormon alone that brings us to the church and keeps us here. For those who are reading but not being vocal, I’d like to just say a few things.

    Similar to how the Bible is a record of God’s dealings with some of His people in the areas surrounding Israel, the Book of Mormon is a record of God’s dealings with some of His people on the American continent. The main history of the book spans about 1000 years, from 600 B.C. to 400 A.D. During that time, just as Israel had prophets, the prophets in the Americas recorded their teachings and history. One of the book’s primary purposes is to add a second witness with the Bible that Jesus is the Christ. The highlight of the book is Jesus’ appearance shortly after His resurrection, to minster to the people in this small area somewhere in South, Central or North America.

    The book both confirms and clarifies many teachings in the Bible and also provides additional truths to questions that are not overtly discussed or clearly presented in the Bible – for example, how Christ is and has been the central feature of worship since the days of Adam, why there is a need for opposition and our ability to choose between good and evil, the infinite nature of Christ’s atonement and His suffering for us, the relationship between God’s justice and mercy, and more.

    The Book of Mormon testifies of Jesus Christ more than any other book. There are incredible allegories, psalms, metaphors, symbolic dreams and poetry, all organized into a deliberate, careful and cohesively logical, integrated work. It’s theology is intricate and deep. To focus on ‘white and delightsome’ vs. ‘pure and delightsome’ as if this were the cornerstone of our belief does not compute. It’s like being in room full of incredible knowledge, peace, joy, and love unbounded but focusing on an ant you see in the corner.

    And for the record, every attempt to discredit this book has proven false. More and more evidences are found to support it’s claims than the opposite.One small analysis a group at Berkeley did – after subjecting portions of the Book to a wordprint analysis against Joseph Smith’s personal writings, they concluded that it is “Statistically indefensible to propose Joseph Smith as the author.” There is overwhelming evidence that the book was not written by Joseph Smith or his contemporaries.

    But the thing is, you don’t have to take anyone’s word for it. If you want to know, you can study it yourself, as millions of other people have done, and find out for yourself if it resonates as true for you or not. If it does, yay, if it doesn’t, fine. I don’t understand the intense need to discredit another’s belief system.

  78. “The question of the historical authenticity of the Book of Mormon has long been a source of contention between members of the Latter Day Saint movement and non-members. Many, but not all, Mormons hold the book’s connection to ancient American history as an article of their faith. However, this view finds no acceptance outside of Mormonism.[1] The theory that the Book of Mormon is an ancient American history is considered to fall outside academic credibility.”

  79. haha of course not. I guess Berkeley is not considered academically credible.

    However, where exactly do they say the book came from? Because it exists. Someone wrote the words. People saw and handled the plates it was translated from. In fact, one of my very own ancestors hid the plates in her home for awhile from people who were trying to steal it. Why were they trying to steal something that didn’t exist?

    “For 179 years this book has been examined and attacked, denied and deconstructed, targeted and torn apart like perhaps no other book in modern religious history—perhaps like no other book in any religious history. And still it stands. Failed theories about its origins have been born and parroted and have died—from Ethan Smith to Solomon Spaulding to deranged paranoid to cunning genius. None of these frankly pathetic answers for this book has ever withstood examination because there is no other answer than the one Joseph gave as its young unlearned translator. In this I stand with my own great-grandfather, who said simply enough, “No wicked man could write such a book as this; and no good man would write it, unless it were true and he were commanded of God to do so.”

    If anyone is foolish enough or misled enough to reject 531 pages of a heretofore unknown text teeming with literary and Semitic complexity without honestly attempting to account for the origin of those pages—especially without accounting for their powerful witness of Jesus Christ and the profound spiritual impact that witness has had on what is now tens of millions of readers—if that is the case, then such a person, elect or otherwise, has been deceived” ~ Jeffrey R. Holland

  80. And we don’t have the Arc of the Covenet either, or a picture of Moses parting the Red Sea- because we are talking about faith and it does not always fit neatly into a box with a bow. ( I’m not LDS- don’t expect I ever wlll be, but do allow for the fact that the more I know, the less I Ireally know)

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